So this does not used Micron memory, I remember reading that Intel stop work with Micron - maybe this is part of it.
This is aim and price at lower end market - and came out at same time as the 860, maybe Intel has a faster one coming later this year. If so that is actually very smart on Intel's part.
Yes - I see that but did Intel designed the memory - also a lot of times company purchase other products in there own products - Intel has done this with AMD GPU's because it feels a hole with discrete GPU until they can provide a replacement.
Intel and Micron will stop developing NAND together with their 4th gen, this is the second gen, 3rd gen starts prod in second half of 2018 and 4th gen comes 1 year or more later. So you'll see products with that in 2020. Intel has it's own fab now , producing NAND developed with Micron (and so does Micron ofc) but Intel still has supply agreements (at cost) with Micron and those expire in 2018 and 2019.
Make sense especially with their own fab, they no longer need Micron to supply, but these chips are older generation, so they probably realize that future generations are not necessary
Intel converted a factory in China from making chipsets to making 3D-NAND a couple of years ago, then a couple of weeks ago Intel and Micron announced they would stop working together on 3DNAND once their 3rd generation was released ~2019. They said they would continue to collaborate on their 3DXpoint memory.
Currently it isn't clear if all of Intel's supply comes from the Intel factory or if they are still getting any from the Micron fabs. Independent of where the flash comes from, it will have the Intel logo since they just get wafers from Micron and package it themselves.
I guess post-Meltdown/Spectre benchmarking is in the pipeline, as IO-benchmarks should show a large drop... It definitely will make Core8 benchmarks a lot more interesting. I wish you all good luck in getting to the bottom of the things regarding performance impact, we count on you!
Ignoring the XFS results (just that they are using cfq means the fs is starting the fight with one arm, and most of a leg, disabled) it looks like 5% or less (except for the compile benchmark which caused one fs to drop 15%)
Given recent news about Intel microcode update recall and Linus's rants about unacceptable kernel updates, I think the actual Spectre mitigation impact is unknown, at least under Linux. I doubt it's larger than 15%, but we'll see.
Right we are comparing EVO not PRO here. And this is Intel's midrange consumer NVME now if Optane is high/enthu and 600p is low, and the 760p still doesn't compare to Samsung's lessor NVME 960 evo consumer from more than a year ago. The 960evo has a small premium in price because it can command it based on performance since no one else is stepping up to its level. Also the OEM 960 evo (PM961) is often available new on ebay for a little over $300 at 1TB which maybe the Intel offering will match. So, an altogether underwhelming showing by Intel is a valid criticism while msabercr's exaggerated Beetle vs. 911 jab which is implicit on price/offering tier not being comparable is misplaced because they are comparable consumer NVME offerings.
Toshiba is trying to sell their memory chip business, that's why their prices are out of whack and they have no successor. They gutted that division and leave old stock at inflated prices to pretend their brand has some sort of value. Bain must be working some sort of angle to see $18B of value.
Real world testing would be very helpful on SSDs. While the benchmarks are great, as a consumer, what I really care about is how much difference a drive will make to dad to day activities - boot time, application loading etc.
You won't see much difference in those use cases, maybe some heavy applications might take a second or two longer to load even in the slowest drives. These drives only differentiate themselves in situations where you hammer them with tons of data and instructions.
And that's the "dirty" secret of SSDs: as much as benchmarks show them performing faster or slower, in real life it makes little difference unless your workflow relies on heavy I/O. I can confirm that as I have currently installed Vertex4, 850EVO and MX300 drives and I cannot tell of any difference when using any of them.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: when buying an SSD, the only rule to follow is "get the biggest drive you can fit in your budget".
It's not just the speed, it's the handling. A better analogy might be one of the supercars that can hit 300mph. See, in my 25mph residential neighborhood, I often have people running up behind me wanting to go 40 or more. Then I take a turn without touching the brakes, and suddenly they disappear from my mirror. But then my 1993 pickup truck can do the same, so I guess I don't need my BMW after all. Only - one of those old hard drives I still have in a drawer from 1993 just won't keep up with even the worst SSD I could buy.
The difference between a PC and a BMW is one of them will help you keep your virginity and the other will help you lose it. If the PC is a status symbol to you then I'd suggest you skip your next upgrade and buy yourself a new wardrobe. A 1080 Ti does not equal a hotter girlfriend.
That's certainly the result i expect, but in a review, it feels like something that should be shown repeatedly. Without those results, I think the benchmarks can mislead people into poor buying decisions.
I try to only make buying recommendations that our readers could actually follow through on. There is not much stock of new Intel 750s left, and even less that could be had for the kind of prices you're quoting. I wouldn't trust anyone selling a "new" 750 for $175 unless it was clearly a liquidation sale from a retailer that was going bankrupt.
This "anyone" isn't some hipster selling a used drive on eBay. Its a major retail chain in Canada think like micro center in the US. And you are right they are clearing stock for the newer stuff to come in and certainly not going bankrupt they have 35 store locations.
M.2? But, why? And what's with the ridiculously high price/GB? It's 2018 and still for years and years nothing has changed in this industry. And we enter yet another year when SSD manufacturers have given me every reason to spend my money elsewhere.
I think we have come a long since the first SSD review on Anandtech. And we still have yet to determined the one benchmarks that is representative of real world usage.
With these sort of SSD performance I wondered if we are still bottlenecked by IO at all.
The Intel 512GB is now under $200 for MSRP, I bet street price will be even lower, and $100 cheaper then Samsung. While the 128GB and 256GB is much closer, mainly because the cost of controller is fixed, contributing to the bottom line pricing.
Which is why I am sadden, and a little angry, how Apple in 2018, being one of the largest NAND buyer and has an economy of scale, their own SSD Controller, is STILL shipping a HDD on iMac.
Dear BILLY, could you please test several NVME drives in several laptop models to see which ones provide the best speed? I think this will be a very popular review.
Half a year later we can see where the pricing has gone, and it's in a pleasant downward direction.
I recently bought a 256GB 760p for a lower-end build (Ryzen 5 2400G, also a bargain at $110) and it's performing very well in that application. It was $60 that day ($65 right now), making it the least expensive option at that capacity other than the store brand drive. The 512GB is $125, but in that capacity class the Crucial MX500 is even more aggressively priced at $100. All in all a great time to be buying an SSD and CPU, but still a lousy one for RAM.
So is the 500 GB Intel 760p better in every single aspect (including latency, power, and small random writes/reads) than the 500 GB SATA Samsung 860 EVO?
How about full throttle maximum write/read speed power consumption? In which applications is 60ms wake up latency typically a problem? What does this translate to for the average user? Using Visual Studio for programming? Gaming? Internet? Video watching? Handling files?
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Dr. Swag - Tuesday, January 23, 2018 - link
What happened to your performance consistency tests?ImSpartacus - Wednesday, January 24, 2018 - link
I'm glad I wasn't the only one that noticed them missing.I'd love to get a comment on why that is omitted.
SleepyFE - Saturday, January 27, 2018 - link
Just assume it's not consistent enough to measure up. It is an Intel product after all. If they don't won't it published it won't be.jjj - Tuesday, January 23, 2018 - link
Fair perf for the price but not exciting.Any word on a timing for their lower end 660p QLC based drive?
HStewart - Tuesday, January 23, 2018 - link
So this does not used Micron memory, I remember reading that Intel stop work with Micron - maybe this is part of it.This is aim and price at lower end market - and came out at same time as the 860, maybe Intel has a faster one coming later this year. If so that is actually very smart on Intel's part.
edzieba - Tuesday, January 23, 2018 - link
The Micron logo is printed right there on the packages for all to see...emvonline - Tuesday, January 23, 2018 - link
thats dramHStewart - Tuesday, January 23, 2018 - link
Yes - I see that but did Intel designed the memory - also a lot of times company purchase other products in there own products - Intel has done this with AMD GPU's because it feels a hole with discrete GPU until they can provide a replacement.msabercr - Tuesday, January 23, 2018 - link
All the nand is IMFT, Intel has just also leveraged their own fabs to produce more for themselves. All the nand designs are joint venture.jjj - Tuesday, January 23, 2018 - link
Intel and Micron will stop developing NAND together with their 4th gen, this is the second gen, 3rd gen starts prod in second half of 2018 and 4th gen comes 1 year or more later. So you'll see products with that in 2020.Intel has it's own fab now , producing NAND developed with Micron (and so does Micron ofc) but Intel still has supply agreements (at cost) with Micron and those expire in 2018 and 2019.
HStewart - Tuesday, January 23, 2018 - link
Make sense especially with their own fab, they no longer need Micron to supply, but these chips are older generation, so they probably realize that future generations are not necessaryilt24 - Tuesday, January 23, 2018 - link
Intel converted a factory in China from making chipsets to making 3D-NAND a couple of years ago, then a couple of weeks ago Intel and Micron announced they would stop working together on 3DNAND once their 3rd generation was released ~2019. They said they would continue to collaborate on their 3DXpoint memory.Currently it isn't clear if all of Intel's supply comes from the Intel factory or if they are still getting any from the Micron fabs. Independent of where the flash comes from, it will have the Intel logo since they just get wafers from Micron and package it themselves.
rawcode - Tuesday, January 23, 2018 - link
Your pricing for the the Samsung 960 PRO are way off. You have prices for the 512GB in the 256GB column. 1TB for the 512GB, and 2Tb for the 1TB.Billy Tallis - Tuesday, January 23, 2018 - link
Fixed. Thanks!lux44 - Tuesday, January 23, 2018 - link
I guess post-Meltdown/Spectre benchmarking is in the pipeline, as IO-benchmarks should show a large drop... It definitely will make Core8 benchmarks a lot more interesting. I wish you all good luck in getting to the bottom of the things regarding performance impact, we count on you!tuxRoller - Tuesday, January 23, 2018 - link
Not as bad as was once thought.https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&...
Ignoring the XFS results (just that they are using cfq means the fs is starting the fight with one arm, and most of a leg, disabled) it looks like 5% or less (except for the compile benchmark which caused one fs to drop 15%)
lux44 - Wednesday, January 24, 2018 - link
Given recent news about Intel microcode update recall and Linus's rants about unacceptable kernel updates, I think the actual Spectre mitigation impact is unknown, at least under Linux. I doubt it's larger than 15%, but we'll see.Jhlot - Tuesday, January 23, 2018 - link
Bummer, still significantly outpaced by the 960 EVO which was released more than a year ago.msabercr - Tuesday, January 23, 2018 - link
Dang it, this VW Beetle is nowhere near as fast as my 911 turbo.shabby - Tuesday, January 23, 2018 - link
Price is close enough that it should be.Jhlot - Tuesday, January 23, 2018 - link
Right we are comparing EVO not PRO here. And this is Intel's midrange consumer NVME now if Optane is high/enthu and 600p is low, and the 760p still doesn't compare to Samsung's lessor NVME 960 evo consumer from more than a year ago. The 960evo has a small premium in price because it can command it based on performance since no one else is stepping up to its level. Also the OEM 960 evo (PM961) is often available new on ebay for a little over $300 at 1TB which maybe the Intel offering will match. So, an altogether underwhelming showing by Intel is a valid criticism while msabercr's exaggerated Beetle vs. 911 jab which is implicit on price/offering tier not being comparable is misplaced because they are comparable consumer NVME offerings.milli - Thursday, January 25, 2018 - link
Why even compare to the 960 EVO?It barely matches the Toshiba XG5 and there's already a faster XG5-P.
andychow - Tuesday, January 23, 2018 - link
Toshiba is trying to sell their memory chip business, that's why their prices are out of whack and they have no successor. They gutted that division and leave old stock at inflated prices to pretend their brand has some sort of value. Bain must be working some sort of angle to see $18B of value.emvonline - Tuesday, January 23, 2018 - link
it has 2 dram chips? for a 512GB SSD? with average performance? is that normal?svan1971 - Tuesday, January 23, 2018 - link
Intel 50% lower performance for 33% less money than Samsung.HStewart - Tuesday, January 23, 2018 - link
And the new 960 was release today.megapleb - Tuesday, January 23, 2018 - link
Real world testing would be very helpful on SSDs. While the benchmarks are great, as a consumer, what I really care about is how much difference a drive will make to dad to day activities - boot time, application loading etc.niva - Tuesday, January 23, 2018 - link
You won't see much difference in those use cases, maybe some heavy applications might take a second or two longer to load even in the slowest drives. These drives only differentiate themselves in situations where you hammer them with tons of data and instructions.bug77 - Tuesday, January 23, 2018 - link
And that's the "dirty" secret of SSDs: as much as benchmarks show them performing faster or slower, in real life it makes little difference unless your workflow relies on heavy I/O. I can confirm that as I have currently installed Vertex4, 850EVO and MX300 drives and I cannot tell of any difference when using any of them.I've said it before and I'll say it again: when buying an SSD, the only rule to follow is "get the biggest drive you can fit in your budget".
Amandtec - Wednesday, January 24, 2018 - link
Contrarian view: A PC is as much a status symbol as a tool. By your logic no one should buy a BMW because you unlikely to use all that extra speed.rrinker - Wednesday, January 24, 2018 - link
It's not just the speed, it's the handling. A better analogy might be one of the supercars that can hit 300mph.See, in my 25mph residential neighborhood, I often have people running up behind me wanting to go 40 or more. Then I take a turn without touching the brakes, and suddenly they disappear from my mirror. But then my 1993 pickup truck can do the same, so I guess I don't need my BMW after all.
Only - one of those old hard drives I still have in a drawer from 1993 just won't keep up with even the worst SSD I could buy.
Pastuch - Monday, January 29, 2018 - link
The difference between a PC and a BMW is one of them will help you keep your virginity and the other will help you lose it. If the PC is a status symbol to you then I'd suggest you skip your next upgrade and buy yourself a new wardrobe. A 1080 Ti does not equal a hotter girlfriend.megapleb - Tuesday, January 23, 2018 - link
That's certainly the result i expect, but in a review, it feels like something that should be shown repeatedly. Without those results, I think the benchmarks can mislead people into poor buying decisions.Makaveli - Tuesday, January 23, 2018 - link
The Intel 750 still looks like the better drive to me just higher power usage.The $482 price from newegg is also outdated.
I can pick up a brand new 750 drive in Canada for $218 CAD which is $175 USD which is cheaper than the $199 price you have listed for the 760p.
The choice is obvious.
Billy Tallis - Tuesday, January 23, 2018 - link
I try to only make buying recommendations that our readers could actually follow through on. There is not much stock of new Intel 750s left, and even less that could be had for the kind of prices you're quoting. I wouldn't trust anyone selling a "new" 750 for $175 unless it was clearly a liquidation sale from a retailer that was going bankrupt.Makaveli - Tuesday, January 23, 2018 - link
This "anyone" isn't some hipster selling a used drive on eBay. Its a major retail chain in Canada think like micro center in the US. And you are right they are clearing stock for the newer stuff to come in and certainly not going bankrupt they have 35 store locations.Alistair - Wednesday, January 24, 2018 - link
Still his point stands that you are referring to a clearance price. Might only be for a week.Makaveli - Wednesday, January 24, 2018 - link
The price has actually been like that for well over a month.I'm picking up the 1.2TB drive today for $488!
Magichands8 - Tuesday, January 23, 2018 - link
M.2? But, why? And what's with the ridiculously high price/GB? It's 2018 and still for years and years nothing has changed in this industry. And we enter yet another year when SSD manufacturers have given me every reason to spend my money elsewhere.tylerdd - Tuesday, January 23, 2018 - link
Why isnt the intel 900p on any of the charts? It is the current storage king and its not on the charts as a comparison?Makaveli - Tuesday, January 23, 2018 - link
Its not on the charts because this is a review of budget drives.There would be no point to adding it to this review its in a different performance segment.
emvonline - Tuesday, January 23, 2018 - link
and you cant put it in a notebookiwod - Wednesday, January 24, 2018 - link
I think we have come a long since the first SSD review on Anandtech. And we still have yet to determined the one benchmarks that is representative of real world usage.With these sort of SSD performance I wondered if we are still bottlenecked by IO at all.
The Intel 512GB is now under $200 for MSRP, I bet street price will be even lower, and $100 cheaper then Samsung. While the 128GB and 256GB is much closer, mainly because the cost of controller is fixed, contributing to the bottom line pricing.
Which is why I am sadden, and a little angry, how Apple in 2018, being one of the largest NAND buyer and has an economy of scale, their own SSD Controller, is STILL shipping a HDD on iMac.
xchaotic - Wednesday, January 24, 2018 - link
So why would I want this over the slightly faster and cheaper 960 EVO? (espeically at 256GB it's faster)solar75 - Tuesday, January 30, 2018 - link
Dear BILLY, could you please test several NVME drives in several laptop models to see which ones provide the best speed? I think this will be a very popular review.Shirley Dulcey - Friday, August 31, 2018 - link
Half a year later we can see where the pricing has gone, and it's in a pleasant downward direction.I recently bought a 256GB 760p for a lower-end build (Ryzen 5 2400G, also a bargain at $110) and it's performing very well in that application. It was $60 that day ($65 right now), making it the least expensive option at that capacity other than the store brand drive. The 512GB is $125, but in that capacity class the Crucial MX500 is even more aggressively priced at $100. All in all a great time to be buying an SSD and CPU, but still a lousy one for RAM.
andras1 - Friday, February 8, 2019 - link
So is the 500 GB Intel 760p better in every single aspect (including latency, power, and small random writes/reads) than the 500 GB SATA Samsung 860 EVO?andras1 - Saturday, February 9, 2019 - link
How about full throttle maximum write/read speed power consumption?In which applications is 60ms wake up latency typically a problem? What does this translate to for the average user? Using Visual Studio for programming? Gaming? Internet? Video watching? Handling files?
FastCarsLike - Friday, May 24, 2019 - link
I don't get it, how is it still "TBD", this has been out for almost a year now.ktan112 - Tuesday, July 23, 2019 - link
Is my Intel 760p dying, I'm getting less than half the performance of your results from testing:https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/18676663#DRI...