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  • StevoLincolnite - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    FINALLY! And First. :P
  • webmastir - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Typical YouTube user.
  • dsumanik - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Would just like to say this is the first Non garbage pseudo viral marketing advertisement "review" I've read on Anandtech in months. Well done sir.

    Please pass on some editorial tips to Joshua Ho and Brandon Chester, imho, the two most corrupt authors working for this publication.
  • kenansadhu - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    Came to a house and insult the owner. Classy.
  • ddriver - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    If truth is insulting to the owner, he outta stop and think about what he is doing.

    Windows 10 is the worlds largest and most obnoxious spyware, and it just sucks to see how many people are getting paid to shower it with accolades.
  • quidpro - Tuesday, September 1, 2015 - link

    MS is allowed to compete with Google, Apple, and Facebook, or anything else you may have account for and are willing to sign in with which adds convenience of syncing of personal info across devices. To lambaste MS for playing catch-up is ridiculous. A keyboard on an android phone or iphone "tracks your keypresses". It has to. You can't have GPS and turn by turn worth having without allowing a service know where you are or where you intend to go. You can't have your contacts pulled down across devices unless you allow for access to your data. You can't get from one website to another without divulging your IP. This is the way things are. These are the services people want to make their lives easier and better. Windows 10 isn't the most obnoxious, it's just late to the game. As is your criticism.
  • ibudic1 - Saturday, November 7, 2015 - link

    ditto
  • bs grinder - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    how many pieces of silver does ms pay u for ur quid pro bs????
    john rayburn Williamsburg nm
  • Lerianis - Thursday, October 1, 2015 - link

    ddriver, cut the bull. Windows 10 tells you EVERY SINGLE THING that it will send back to Microsoft and allows you to opt-out or turn off the functionality that requires that stuff being sent back to Microsoft.
    Not a big issue in the real world and it is past time to realize that Windows 10 is not spyware anymore than OSX or Linux are.
  • zman58 - Thursday, October 15, 2015 - link

    You are dreaming, you have no idea what is or could be gathered and sent at any point in time. Read the EULA, you agree and bless whatever they decide to collect and send for whatever reason they see fit. And you give up far more than that when you click "I agree".
  • zman58 - Thursday, October 15, 2015 - link

    "worlds largest and most obnoxious spyware"

    We really don't know exactly what data it sends back on the user and their system(s) do we? The EULA does not detail this for us. In fact, the EULA has you agree to whatever they desire from your system--for improving the product. The spyware option is purely opt-out, for those of us who know what opt-out means and are capable of figuring out how to opt-out.

    Then once you can/do opt-out, how can you be assured you will remain opted-out through upgrades, hot-fixes, patches, and what-not?

    Bottom line is that the vendor decides what and when they want to collect data from your system, you have absolutely no control over them. Read the EULA and consider what it means before you click "I agree". You might not want to click that button...

    Perhaps using an alternative reliable, safe, secure, and private operating system might be a better approach. ...Well hello there Linux.
  • bs grinder - Tuesday, December 26, 2017 - link

    thanx
    john
  • ddriver - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    "The privacy concerns are certainly not overblown, but for most people, they will make the trade-off of less privacy if it means an improved experience. The textbook example here is advertising, where in order to deliver relevant ads to the user"

    Ah yeas, I bet the whole world rejoices being able to give up their privacy to be blasted with ads. It is a great trade-off indeed.

    "If you are concerned, the best thing to do is to read the privacy statement and adjust your settings accordingly."

    I bet that's the best you can do, pretending that somehow clicking a button or two magically makes all problems go away

    Also, I see a catch in those "privacy settings". You seem to only be able to turn off "sending MS info", but that doesn't imply that data is still not being mined and sent anywhere else.
  • imaheadcase - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    You are aware these settings are present in almost almost win OS? The only privacy stuff they collect is related to MS services, onedrive, etc. Just because win 10 gave people options (gasp!) vs win 8 and 7 does not mean those did not, and still do have it.
  • ddriver - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    No they are not. Especially if you bother to watch what updates you install. For example, MS will try to sneak in the "telemetry" data miner service on your windows 7 as an update, but it is not there to begin with.

    I haven't used and will likely never use a windows version after 7, but in a "clean" windows 7 install none of the win 10 invasions of privacy are present. It doesn't keylog, it doesn't listen to speech, it doesn't analyze text or file content and it doesn't report everything you do back home.

    Oh, and you can also chose not to install certain updates, whereas with the "nice free" windows 10 MS get to deploy on your system whatever it wants - all in the name of your comfort.
  • Michael Bay - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    Your religious belief in 7 is amusing, at least.
  • ddriver - Thursday, August 27, 2015 - link

    If anyone around here is a believer, that is you, believing MS are trustworthy that is.
  • Gigaplex - Friday, August 28, 2015 - link

    If you don't trust MS, you shouldn't be using any version of Windows.
  • althaz - Thursday, August 27, 2015 - link

    FYI: Windows 7 collects telemetry by default. It was turned off by default in Vista and XP, but most OEMs turned it on for you. So Win 10 is collecting the same information as Windows XP, Vista and 7 (and 8), for most people.
  • yuhong - Friday, August 28, 2015 - link

    Does Win10 really "keylog" outside of search boxes and the like? search suggestions are not new either. There is no evidence that Win10 can read arbitrary files either.
  • Rickkins1 - Wednesday, September 2, 2015 - link

    Well of course they do. The entire business model of windows10 relies on the gathering of data relentlessly to serve up ads.
  • Lerianis - Thursday, October 1, 2015 - link

    Well great, because Windows 10 does not keylog either, ddriver. That whole "Windows 10 keylogs!" thing was debunked after someone realized that the 'keylogger' was for Touch Keyboard improvements.
    Touch Keyboard SHOULD be keylogged so that they can find out if it needs improvements.
  • Brett Howse - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    If you go through and click express settings during install, this is all going to be turned on. If you do custom, which I assume anyone as concerned as you are would do, you can disable almost all of this during install, and the remainder can be disabled in settings.

    The one exception to this is diagnostic data which can't be completely disabled.

    There seems to be a lot of confusion in the comments where people are overlaying Microsoft's Services EULA with the Windows 10 EULA and maybe I should have spelled that out better in the privacy section. They are not the same thing, and using Windows 10 does not mean Microsoft has access to your local files. If you use OneDrive, of course they do.

    The Privacy FAQ that I linked to in the privacy section actually does a very good job of explaining all of this data, what it does, and what it is used for. If you will never move beyond Windows 7 because of this, well then honestly it's your loss because there are a pile of great features in Windows 10 that I already don't want to live without. But my guess is you don't run your own email server with PGP encryption, so your email is already in the cloud.

    This is not 1995 anymore when Windows 95 came out. People use cloud services already. Windows 10 ties into them, which is what most people want. If you don't want that, you are not forced to use them.
  • althaz - Thursday, August 27, 2015 - link

    You are going to be blasted for ads regardless, targeted advertising just means you might actually be interested in what's being advertised - it's squarely a win-win.
  • ddriver - Friday, August 28, 2015 - link

    So M$ is for people who don't have an idea what they are interested in? And thus need ads to steer their interest? Or in short, M$ is for idiots? Sounds about right.

    A good product doesn't need advertisement. A moderately intelligent person would do his own research before a purchase, rather than be guided by a "we paid to say our stuff is nice" publications.
  • Alexvrb - Monday, August 31, 2015 - link

    After reading your raving- I mean, your posts, I realized something. You must not use any Google or Apple products either then, right? You know Google is an ad firm, right? And Apple sales are largely predicated on skilled marketing and other perception control?

    "A good product doesn't need advertisement" You're delusional. A BAD product can outsell a good product purely as a result of advertising.
  • lordken - Friday, September 4, 2015 - link

    @Alexvrb: I guess that's what he (ddriver) meant saying "M$ is for idiots" and "A moderately intelligent person would do his own research before a purchase"
    So unfortunately today's world reflect this, as you said any shit-like product can be sold much better than really good product based on the fact that sheeps are served adds and making decision on impulses/emotions etc.
    So he is not delusional. However it is delusional to think that things like you say are normal.
  • sheeple - Sunday, September 27, 2015 - link

    You are indisputably correct with everything you have stated, there's a good reason M$$$ is offering 10 "freely", and the reason may not be in the best interest of "we the sh-eeple"
  • hupowat - Tuesday, November 7, 2017 - link

    Windows 10 is awesome. I installed the OS yesterday and activated it with KMspico software (https://kmspicoinfo.com) The Windows 10 is very fast and beautiful.
  • hupowat - Tuesday, November 7, 2017 - link

    Windows 10 is awesome. I installed the OS yesterday and activated it with KMspico software: https://kmspicoinfo.com The Windows 10 is very fast and beautiful.
  • prophet001 - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    The spyware aspect of this OS bothers me. I'll be using Windows 7 until this is reconsidered.
  • Michael Bay - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    So, the same spyware.
  • prophet001 - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Windows 7 doesn't even begin to approach this level of intrusion.
  • Michael Bay - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    As long as you believe that.
  • wishgranter - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    The Windows 10 EULA and Microsoft's Privacy Statement declare that Microsoft will access and use the content of people's emails and other files, such as documents uploaded to One Drive, according to Microsoft's discretion. "Share with our partners" also includes law enforcement, wherever Microsoft deems required. And I think Microsoft cannot ignore any instance which they feel should be forwarded to law enforcement without making themselves complicit in any potential criminal activity.
    Windows 10's all-your-contents-are-belongs-to-us policy is also a widening of the backdoor which law enforcement asks OS manufacturer to build into their systems.
    Basically, Microsoft's Windows 10 EULA claims that all files used in Windows 10 may be accessed, searched, and contents utilized by Microsoft, with Microsoft exercizing sole discretion over what it will access, and how it will be used.
    I think all businesses, content creators, and even nations should be dismayed at this. It looks like Russia already is concerned with Windows 10's always-on espionage against its users:
    http://www.rt.com/politics/312172-windo ... ent-stirs/
    If people will recall, Microsoft was previously found to be snooping in people's Outlook emails, and this discovery caused a furor among people, leading to Microsoft saying they would not do this anymore:
    http://www.wired.com/2014/03/microsoft_vigilante/1
    http://www.theverge.com/2014/3/20/55314 ... l-policies2
    But now, Microsoft has made it a guaranteed policy of Windows 10 that they will always do this:
    https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/privacy ... fault.aspx
    "Content. We collect content of your files and communications when necessary to provide you with the services you use. This includes: the content of your documents, photos, music or video you upload to a Microsoft service such as OneDrive. It also includes the content of your communications sent or received using Microsoft services, such as the:
    - subject line and body of an email,
    - text or other content of an instant message,
    - audio and video recording of a video message, and
    - audio recording and transcript of a voice message you receive or a text message you dictate."
    Shouldn't there be a much bigger furor over the discretionless snooping of Windows 10, which includes all Outlook emails, than there was over just Outlook on its own?
    Are people OK with their PCs contents no longer being their sole domain and in their privacy, but instead being fully open to Microsoft?
    I'm not. I'll be sticking with Windows 7 for now.
    Windows 10's motto: Your System is not Your Own
  • xenol - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    You're reading the TP EULA. The actual Windows 10 EULA is at http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/Retail/Win... , which defers the privacy stuff to Microsoft's privacy statement ( https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/privacystatement/ )

    Which says none or few of the things in the TP EULA (the only one I found in common is they may look at anything you upload to OneDrive, which you can disable on Windows 10 anyway)
  • Grooveriding - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Really unfortunate how far Microsoft went with privacy invasion and data trolling with Win 10. Fortunately you can disable what appears to be all of it with options, registry tweaks and disabling services.

    I would also recommend running a draconian firewall such as Tinywall that blocks all internet traffic and you have to allow applications on a case by case basis. As well as editing your hosts file to block all traffic back to Microsoft's data collection servers. As well, never use the OS with an MS account, just use a local account.

    Pretty outrageous MS does not offer an option to disable everything without having to resort to these measures.
  • hansmuff - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    The "sharing with law enforcement" is automatic for any data Microsoft has. If you're on 7 and use OneDrive, well there you go.

    Regarding the recording of voice data, that's a given with all of them. Siri, Google, now MS all use online services to improve detection and of course otherwise use that data. And they all send your recorded voice in some form or shape to their servers.

    I can see how you'd tie it to Windows 10 because that centralizes a lot of those "new generation" of services that are in the cloud. But those services exist with or without Windows 10. I think it's wiser to educate people about what "the cloud" implies, which is exactly what you say; people do not have control over the data they store.

    It's a cloud issue, and the cloud has provided the perfect vehicle for the likes of Apple, Google and Microsoft to take what they want. This goes for your PC, phone, tablet, everything.
  • Notmyusualid - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    None of my phones or PCs send anything to the cloud.

    It is called privacy common sense.
  • Matts8 - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    What phone do you have?
  • Notmyusualid - Friday, August 28, 2015 - link

    I run a Galaxy S5, Android has a fake Google account, using Cyangenmod as the fork OS, which comes with Privacy Guard by default. I can tell each and every app (as they pop up for permissions), that they cannot have access to say, my contacts, location, camera, photos, etc. Google Syncs nothing, everything turned off - I save my contacts to a file, and via microSD card they are transferred from phone to phone as I upgrade them.

    You really only need the Google account to access the Play Store, and yes, I do side-load some apps. Having no Samsung account, my Gear apps won't download, so I grab a working apk from a place I've known for some time. I have never ever made an app purchase on Android. Only once on Crapple some years ago (Shazam - now free also).

    Every now and again, Android asks me to 'Review my Account', which is their way of trying to force me to add Paypal, or a Credit/Debit card to the account. No chance.

    I change the Google account every two years too.

    I don't use social media.

    Text messages are not seen by apps, due to Pirvacy Guard.

    Any more Q's?
  • Ratman6161 - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    If none of your phones "send anything to the cloud" I'd like to see how you accomplish that. With either iOS or Android are you saying you don't use any apps at all? Or you side load every app you use (don't think iOS would let you do that anyway but not an Apple user).

    If you are getting any apps from the respective app store you have to be logging into them and providing them a credit card and other information to make the purchase.

    Are you saying you either don't get email or have your own mail server so you can avoid the cloud? You never use any social media from your phone?

    Use a navigation app? How do you do that without your location going to the cloud?

    This is all kind of difficult to believe. For most, a smart phone would be next to useless without at least some cloud services such as email.

    Or are you saying you don't use a smart phone and when you say "none of my phones" you mean old feature phones ... oh wait, even text messages could be considered sending your data to the cloud.
  • Notmyusualid - Friday, August 28, 2015 - link

    Ratmann, see my answer above.
  • groberts116 - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Troll Alert: More misinformation about Windows 10. A lot of wasted time writing a comment that is totally inaccurate. Windows 10 does not read your email or look for any applications for files other than to insure Microsoft Software on our systems has a valid product key.
  • superflex - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Says the M$ sockpuppet.
  • ppi - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Using link from RT.com completely discredits your argument, as it is site full of deliberate lies. Half-an-hour watching RT.com TV (when I was genuinely looking for alternative view on Ukraine crisis) was more than enough for me to understand this site is total rubbish.

    Obviously, if you save data on OneDrive, and court orders to give your data away, MS has to comply. If SWAT comes to your home, they will look in your computer as well.

    And citing Technical Preview EULA is unfair. And incorrect.
  • sonny73n - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    @ppi
    Your opinion worths trash. You should go back to watching Fox News which is more suited for your perspective.
  • ppi - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    @sonny73n: You are making incorrect assumption, that I am basing my opinion on RT.com on what they say on Russia/Ukraine. No, I made that conclusion based on what they said on my country and my region, and which were blatant manipulative lies/disinformations. Also, RT.com spreads any fitting conspiracy theory available, no matter how crazy they are.

    I actually wonder what makes you believe RT.com is reliable source of information for anything else other than things like KHL results.
  • Michael Bay - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    [muh offended stereotypes intensifies]
    Oh no, RT didn`t blame Russia for everything, alarm!
  • Notmyusualid - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Here, this picture might help you some more:

    http://i.imgur.com/p2DYhbd.jpg

    Kinda spells out the whole privacy issue for me... so much so, I won't be upgrading my Win 7 Pro to Win 10 Pro.

    My spare laptop received a free copy of Win 10, and I have a firewall on it, to prevent the Microsoft packet leaks.
  • inighthawki - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Lol this image is so full of crap. Not only can you turn most of it off permanently (And yes, you can disable WU and WD from the services list and it will not start back up) but this image is so misleading. They even photoshopped an ad in the start menu on a setting that doesn't even exist in the RTM build... Come on, that's low. Mos tof the other things such as "tracking keystrokes and browsing history" for wbe browsing exist in Windows 7 and 8. Wi-Fi sense has been known to be blown way out of proportion. Telemtry has also been proven to only provide non-personal information. It collects stuff such as hardware configurations, statistical information like how often you click the start button, and machine crashes. Does this seriously worry you that Microsoft knows that "someone in the world" owns a MacBook pro and clicked the start button 8 times today?

    You're really just buying into a bunch of fearmongering by a bunch of people who just wanted excuses to continue using Windows 7. If you don't like Windows 10 or don't want to use it, that's fine, but don't cite these ultra poor excuses as the reasons why, as it shows you didn't actually look much further than the surface, and just jumped on the bandwagon.
  • Notmyusualid - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Thank you for your (what I believe is an incorrect opinion), but I HAVE EVERYTHING TURNED OFF, and my firewall logs STILL show encrypted packets going out to Microsoft - EVERYTIME I hit a key, and everytime I open a program.

    So even if somebody starts with a Microsoft Account, their data would be synced to MS, before many would realise what had happened.

    There is absoultely nothing you can say that would make me believe that MS deserves access to my contacts. Those are private.

    And no, I did not jump on any bandwagon, I did my own testing, came to similar conslusion as the picture stated, and yes, I will be continuing to use Win 7, as I do not like it.

    Only Enterprise Editions can disable all modes of telemetry...
  • inighthawki - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Oh OK, so you saw encrypted packets going out... So I guess you decrypted them and looked at the content, then? Sending information when certain types of hardware interrupts occur does not mean they are sending personal information or recording your keystrokes like a keylogger. You have no way of knowing what's in the packets, yet you make assumptions that it's a privacy issue. Yet another example of someone pretending they're fully informed because they open up Wireshark and see some packets being sent over the network and "came to a conclusion" about what was really happening.
  • minijedimaster - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Are you paid to have some shill answer for everything windows 10? "Oh well, so you proved me wrong with your firewall packet captures, but do you REALLY know what it's sending???"

    LOL, yeah ok... go be a paid shill somewhere else.
  • inighthawki - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Sorry if I'm not irrational/paranoid and don't jump to conclusions based on evidence that doesn't actually show any of the claims you're making.

    Oh no, a network packet! My entire life must now belong to Microsoft's hands!
  • SlyNine - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    I have to disagree. Your computer sending encrypted packets to Microsoft, even tho you supposedly disabled that stuff, is a HUGE red flag. At that point its up to Microsoft to convince me that they are NOT sending personal information (it shouldn't be sending any). I might have to pass on windows 10 until this gets clarification.
  • imaheadcase - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    Most modern windows OS send data to MS encrypted, almost all programs with internet connectivity do. The OP is prob just looking at the encrypted data it sends to check for windows updates. Has nothing to do with privacy.

    Holy hell did everyone just step on the jump to conclusions mat. lol
  • Notmyusualid - Friday, August 28, 2015 - link

    It has everything to do with privacy.

    Every time I press a key, a packet is sent. This is not updates.
  • Notmyusualid - Friday, August 28, 2015 - link

    It IS a Huge Red Flag.

    This guy is a Microsoft employee.
  • nikon133 - Sunday, August 30, 2015 - link

    You sound like you might be working for competition, though. Apple? Some shady Linux brotherhood? Just saying.
  • Notmyusualid - Friday, August 28, 2015 - link

    He is absolutely a paid shill.

    Another one I saw over on The Daily Telegraph too.
  • Notmyusualid - Friday, August 28, 2015 - link

    Ridiculous answer.

    Why would I need to decrypt the packets? It is completely obvious they coincide exactly - with every key-stroke I make? Really, what else could it be? And we know this logging is used for search, and many other things, so what the hell else could it possibly BE?

    I reckon if someone put a gun to my head I could decrypt them, but the content is obvious.
  • Margalus - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    you have zero credibility since you keep posting the same fake photoshopped picture. Not a single thing is accurate in the garbage you keep posting..
  • yuhong - Friday, August 28, 2015 - link

    "EVERYTIME I hit a key, and everytime I open a program."
    Proof?
  • yuhong - Friday, August 28, 2015 - link

    Actually, I just found out about licensing.md.mp.microsoft.com which is contacted when opening I think Windows Store apps. I wonder if Android and iOS does the same thing.
  • yuhong - Friday, August 28, 2015 - link

    FYI, someone managed to decrypt this traffic using Fiddler: https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/3gm1e3...
  • Notmyusualid - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Absolutely correct.
  • kaidenshi - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    It does now. Most of Windows 10's telemetry and data reporting "features" have been backported to 7 via the last few dozen updates.
  • chrome_slinky - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    Not if you did not install them.
  • imaheadcase - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    You would not know, they are security updates.
  • Notmyusualid - Friday, August 28, 2015 - link

    I saw two of them in my PC. Promptly removed.
  • yuhong - Friday, August 28, 2015 - link

    Not most of them.
  • ddriver - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    I remember back when the win 10 tech preview came out, and it was discovered to be riddled with spyware. Back then I remember them saying "well, that's tech preview, it needs to analyze itself to be improved, that won't be in the final release".

    Few months latter the final release is here, and the spyware is still all there.
  • WorldWithoutMadness - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    It's kinda funny considering smartphone in general is also 'spyware'.
    Of course you can opt to turn the stuff off with the consquence of retardation in some features.
    Same as win10 as well so I couldn't be bothered anymore since the guys behind my phone probably knows me better than I do.
  • piroroadkill - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Microsoft pushed out a telemetry update via Windows Update for 7, too, so if you didn't notice that, it has some of the reporting capabilities.
  • chrome_slinky - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    I did, and hid it. Who knows how many more times I will have to do that, as Microshaft does not respect things like hiding updates any more.
  • Flunk - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Most of the uproar about that is speculation, Microsoft claims they're not doing anything shady at all. Plus, Android and iOS BOTH do have similar agreements. If you're staying on Windows 7 to avoid spying you'd better also stop using your iPhone or Android Phone. Also, better stop using Google or any Google services because their EULA is actually much worse.
  • baka_toroi - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    It's not speculation. Network traces have been analyzed and they've shown the sheer amount of callback-to-the-mothership Win10 does. Worse of all: they can't be stopped, even if you deactivate the service. MS knows better than you what you want (or so they seem to think).

    It also doesn't help when they pay The Verge or some other crappy site to convince the masses spying on its users is OK because "Google already does that!" And I'm seriously thinking most of the people denying all this are paid shills, cause I seriously find it very hard to believe your reasoning against this is "MS said they're not doing anything shady." I mean, are you actually believing them? What do you think they're going to say? "Hey guys, yeah, it's true. We spy the shit out of y'all."
  • prophet001 - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    ^ This
  • Notmyusualid - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Agreed: http://i.imgur.com/p2DYhbd.jpg
  • SlyNine - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Another agreement.
  • imaheadcase - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    wrong
  • Margalus - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    again, zero credibility when you keep posting the same fake photoshopped picture
  • SlyNine - Sunday, August 30, 2015 - link

    Stop with the ad hominem. The argument is still valid.
  • Notmyusualid - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    I too believe in 'paid shills' also.

    I cannot imagine any sane, informed mind, would this data mining acceptable. Whatever the conveniences perceived.
  • theuglyman0war - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    wouldn't mind if I was perhaps paid for this information and could care less if someone was spying on my latest sextapes ( if they think they can stomach my telephoto close-up pimply ass in all it's videotaped digitally edited glory ). I am not paranoid. But I would rather not have every app, browser and OS clogging my systems resources memory and performance with monitoring processes.
  • yuhong - Friday, August 28, 2015 - link

    I agree that keylogging and reading arbitrary files and the like would not be acceptable, but does Win10 really do that? Cortana I think can be turned off.
  • Zak - Thursday, August 27, 2015 - link

    Yup, they ought to be MS shills because I can't imagine any self-respecting individual with IQ over 75 will think what MS is doing with Windows 10 is fine.
  • yuhong - Friday, August 28, 2015 - link

    I agree that keylogging and reading arbitrary files and the like would not be acceptable, but does Win10 really do that? Cortana I think can be turned off.
  • yuhong - Friday, August 28, 2015 - link

    You know you can set the telemetry down to basic, right?
  • Notmyusualid - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    I'm using Cyangenmod, with Privacy Guard (installed by default).

    I also use fake Google account to protect my location.

    Not all of us use their devices blindly.
  • Michael Bay - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    >cyanogen
    >not all of us use their devices blindly

    Jesus, you actually believe that?
  • Notmyusualid - Saturday, August 29, 2015 - link

    >Believe that I'm using Cyangenmod?

    Er, yes. What an odd question.
  • Zak - Thursday, August 27, 2015 - link

    Android? Yes. iOS isn't doing any of that, not by default. And you have greater control over apps privileges.
  • Zak - Thursday, August 27, 2015 - link

    And yeah, I stopped using Google services and apps a long time ago. And if I do I don't log in.
  • cditty - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Enjoy your tin foil hat. I hate when people buy into the EULA arguments. Go read the one for your cell phone.

    I like Windows 10 and I really like my unlimited OneDrive with my Office 365. I don't see how Microsoft could sync all the files I keep up there without scanning my files.

    They can also have all the metrics from my install and errors that they wish.

    Enjoy your Win7. Don't be a baby when you are the victim of a REAL privacy intrusion where credit cards and banking passwords are compromised because you chose not to run the more secure OS.
  • superflex - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Does Microsoft pay you in Hot Pockets for each comment?
  • khanikun - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    KB3075249 and KB3080149. Make Win 7/Win8/Win8.1 spy just like Win 10. I'm sure they weren't paying attention and installed those. Now they're on here complaining, while thinking Win 7 is so much better.
  • theuglyman0war - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    I'll be convinced win 10 is better than win 7 when half my pipeline can run on it without crashing. Which I hope is soon.
  • wavetrex - Thursday, August 27, 2015 - link

    They were uninstalled as soon as I heard about them. Don't have that choice in W10
  • yuhong - Friday, August 28, 2015 - link

    Not the same thing.
  • Teknobug - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Win 7 and Win 8 has some recent updates that installs the data collection Win 10 has, look them up.
  • Da W - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    You don't type this using an android phone, right?
  • SlyNine - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    If you're saying, haha thats just as bad. Stop it, two wrongs don't make a right.
  • faizoff - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Can't wait to read the whole thing, I've been using Win 10 on my main desktop and a tablet. Both were converted from win 8 to 10. The transition was super smooth for both.
  • galta - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Mine was (is still) nasty.
    Upgraded from win7, then my system would not work properly: Ultra slow (if you are wondering, I am running an i7 5930), could not install/remove any software etc.
    Decided then to go for a fresh new start.
    Reinstalled win7, installed only basic drivers (mobo and gpu) and upgraded to win10 again.
    Everything seemed to be fine, but windows 10 would not activate!
    How could it not activate if I am upgrading from an activated system?
    Checked on-line and people seem to be using "generic" keys. Tryed all of them but it did not work.
    New try: I fell back to win7 and created a bootable USB key.
    At least the problem now is new: it asks me for an activation key in the very begining and - surprise! - because the only key I have is from win7, it will not install at all.
    After giving it a thought, I believe win10 does not exist. Instead, it is just vaporware that all the press and some users believing in it.
    Will probably wait for win 11...
  • faizoff - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    I've read a few people have had a rough transition from 7 to 10. I did have 7 on my main desktop but also had a 8 pro install disk so just reformatted and used that to go to 10. Which did take a few hours.
  • Scootcha - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    galta, Don't blame Win10 for your procedural mistakes. I'm guessing that those key you found are probably for the outdated evaluation copies. It is actually more simple than you are making it. 1) Upgrade a legal Win7 to Win10 and you will see it as activated. 2) Re-install Win10 using the USB created with the media creation tool and SKIP the entering of the license code. It will activate with the data stored on the Microsoft servers.
  • galta - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    I never blame people for my procedural mistakes, but I do blame people for not reading thouroughly something before replying to it.
    I DID upgrade from a legal copy and Win10 was NOT activated. I saw it.
    Also tried to skip entering the license code, but the instalation software stopped working.
    Finally, I checked on MS own website and, apparently, the issue is happening with other people too.
  • Scootcha - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    PEBCAK.
  • minijedimaster - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    ^TROLL^
  • galta - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Maybe... Or maybe you miss basic reading skills. Who could know?
  • Michael Bay - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Four transitions as of now for me, two from 7 and two from 8.
    Aside from some video driver issues on nV desktop and intel notebook right after installing, it was a remarkably smooth sailing.
  • andrewaggb - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    I've upgraded over 10 pc's, only 1 had a problem and automatically rolled by to 8.1 (I ended up doing a fresh install of 10 on this machine). Some were running 7 and most were running 8.1
  • kmmatney - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Same here - 2 computer from Windows 8.1 (one a tablet), and 3 computers from Windows 7. For 2 of the Windows 7 machines, I was able to upgrade from 32-bit Windows 7 to 64-bit. That was the main reason why I took the free upgrade - to go to 64-bit. There are certainly a few things that annoy me, but overall I can't complain. Funnily enough, the one system where I don't like the upgrade is my tablet - it seems way too laggy. Part of that may be that it still seems to be constantly updating itself.
  • Michael Bay - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    My tablet is M80ta, so I have no real use for x64 on ot. Runs well, I was pleasantly surprised when it understood that I want stilus input when I got it out.

    If anything, I wish Brett would write more about the tablet side of 10, which became much better compared to 8.
  • khanikun - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    Win 10 sucks on my Surface 3. Seems fine on my Surface Pro 3. Not much to say about the SP3, but it really feels like I'm getting beta updates on my Surface 3. When I first got it, it was pretty junky. The touchscreen seemed to lag and I'd have to touch it a few times to get it to start registering that I was well...touching it. That was on Win 8 or whatever version came stock, I don't even remember.

    I went to Win 10 and not much change. Then an update came and it worked great. No issues with the touchscreen. A couple weeks ago, the problem came back again with another update. Also touch seems to not register very well at the taskbar. Which was a non-issue with Win 8.

    Either way, rolling back to Win 8.1. I hate that the power button is in the start menu, cause on a 1080p screen that's only 10-12", it's ridiculously small. I also hate that I can't pick/choose what updates I want. On Win 10 Pro, I can delay updates, but I can't pick/choose. So back to 8.1.
  • Michael Bay - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    Have you considered turning your unit to warranty service? Non-registering touch is itself a reason enough.
  • chrome_slinky - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    It really is ANNOYING to see people call the "upgrade" free. It is not. It is a license trade - NOTHING MORE. In 30 days from "upgrading" you can no longer use the key for the previous OS to go back.
  • Brett Howse - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    That's not correct you can always use your key to go back, but after 30 days the automated recovery to allow you to go back removes the old Windows.old folder it saved during the upgrade to allow you to roll back from Windows 10 to 7 or 8.1. You seem to be a bit confused there so sorry about not making it more clear in the article. You would have to delete your partition and reinstall 7/8.1 with the old key.
  • phoenix_rizzen - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/07/how-to-do-a...
  • Margalus - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    once you upgrade to win 10, you cannot upgrade again. You have to do a clean install with 10 after the upgrade is done. There are no problems then.
  • jjj - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Win 10 feels like Microsoft is about to slip something in your drink and that's not acceptable.
    The likelyhood of DRM hardware seems very high. I suspect that was added to protect Oculus, to not let users buy a 50$ headset (intead of paying up to 10 times more for Oculus- for no good reason) and use just the Oculus software/store. But it won't be limited to just Oculus and hell knows how bad it can get in the years to come, especially when the press is more than happy to pretend all is ok. Any review should start and end by urging users not to touch it. Don't let Microsoft take over your machine.
  • Flunk - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    If you're running any copy of Windows you're too late to avoid Microsoft taking over your machine.
  • sorten - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    You think Microsoft modified their OS to favor a Facebook product?
  • prophet001 - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Absolutely.

    How are people so naive as to believe there will be no form of 'payment' for something given to you for 'free'? Really? Have we learned nothing?
  • Notmyusualid - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    The 'if it is free - you are the product', does not apply here.

    There are paid editions of Win 10 too.
  • inighthawki - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    It is not free, it is a free upgrade to users who already purchased a previous edition. Big difference. Users who do not own windows or are buying a new PC still pay for a new license. Windows 10, like every version of windows before it, is not a free product.
  • Gigaplex - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    And it's only a free upgrade for a limited time.
  • chrome_slinky - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    It is FREE for NO ONE. It is, at best, a LICENSE TRADE. [and not a good one, as you have no concrete proof of your license - should the Microshaft server ever get compromised, you may be screwed]
  • tonytroubleshooter - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    they dont care about licensing it, they care about people installing a "OMG free Win 10 upgrade", with Cortanana and privacy settings enabled. Soon as the number of WIn10 installs with express settings goes up, so will the money stacks from advertisers to MS. for shame MS, for shame... shadowing Google like a biznitch....
  • BobSwi - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Sticking with 7, and likely next upgrade will be linux with windows in a VM. Virtual box has let me ttest drive so many OS's, Mint, Debian, Slackware.
  • n0b0dykn0ws - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    I know I'll be in the minority, but this OS suffers from the same flaw that Windows 8(.1) did. It offers little reason to upgrade and takes away things that I use.

    I still use Windows Media Center because it is the most polished modern DVR platform for Windows. Either products were dumped years ago and are only available as their last release, or there are modern platforms that you have to spend vast amounts of time configuring and when it finally does work you have to pray that the next release doesn't break it.

    There is a sliver of hope with SiliconDust's forthcoming DVR software, but until it is in final release and I can finally know the final technical details of the platform I am forced to continue using Windows 8.1 on all three of my desktops.

    There just isn't enough 'new' in Windows 10 to make it worthwhile jumping ship. Especially given that features such as Cortana I am no longer interested in using.
  • vLsL2VnDmWjoTByaVLxb - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    One troubling aspect of this ecosystem is I've had trouble using my Microsoft account, including Onedrive, too many times. What is happening right now and for the past few weeks on my work system is a continual prompt to provide credentials when I save documents. It makes getting work done nearly impossible, and I'm considering abandoning this setup I've had for quite some time.

    Previously I've had issues with syncing and adding extra space to my Onedrive account. All in all it's the heart of much of this ecosystem and I've lost trust in it, and therefore, much of my trust of Windows in general. It's my data, why must you make me struggle to access it?
  • basroil - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    "Accessing all apps is different than Windows 7 because there are no folders on the Start Menu. Instead there is just an alphabetical list of all apps that you can scroll through."

    There ARE folders in Windows 10 start menu/screen, I have ~10 of them ranging from Blender to Visual Studio 2015!
  • Brett Howse - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    I updated the text. Sorry about that I actually was meaning hierarchical folders like Programs->Accessories->System Tools but I see that what I said was not correct. Thanks for pointing it out!
  • AlexIsAlex - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    It's a shame, I really wanted to like Windows 10, and had it pegged as an upgrade from 7. It's certainly an improvement over 8, but I'm just not seeing anything convincing over 7 for a desktop. For the desktop use case (no touch, no wifi, no apps - full applications only please) where I will not accept an MS Account login (no Hello, no Store, no Cortana, no OneDrive), that leaves precious little. Slightly faster file copies and a nicer task manager, it seems.

    Then there's the new visual look/design language, which I can't say I really like, personally (this is supposed to be client side software, not a website), and the inconsistent UI between Metro and Desktop - seriously, just try right clicking in the start menu (Metro) compared to the task bar (Desktop).

    There's Edge I suppose. Better than IE, granted. Not as good as Firefox.

    Oh well. I guess we'll all have to migrate eventually. But until forced, I'm sticking with 7.
  • Victor84 - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Sums it up pretty well, could not agree more.
  • trparky - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Firefox? You bring that piece of crap up? That thing will gladly eat through your RAM like a pig. I can't stand Firefox anymore and that goes for anything built on Firefox. The engine itself is garbage. Or, and did you hear that Mozilla will be abandoning XUL and thus all existing extensions will be obsolete?

    You don't need to tie your Microsoft Live Account to your Windows login if you don't want to. All you need is a Microsoft Live Account and Windows 10 will allow you to individually sign into the Store, OneDrive, etc.

    You probably have a Google Account. Same thing, different company.
  • Oxford Guy - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Chrome has been linked to issues with memory leakage. I think Chrome is highly overrated.
  • Notmyusualid - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    +1
  • Victor84 - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    I upgraded from Windows 8 but ran into so many bugs and strange problems that I downgraded after a couple of hours.
  • cjs150 - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    I have been using w10 for a couple of weeks now. It feels a bit quicker than w8, but somewhat to my surprise I find I am missing the live tiles start screen.

    Multiple virtual desktops is a wonderful, and long overdue, feature. Edge is very nice (but I still went back to Chrome).

    Now the bad points:

    1. File explorer. Other than cosmetic changes it has not been overhauled for decades and it shows

    2. Groove music, Brett may like it, I don't. It would not update my music collection without logging in to my Microsoft account (which I do not use except when forced to) when I ticked box to log into that application only, W10 ignored me switched my entire account to the Microsoft account (which took ages to find the disconnect option). Its ability to correctly tag my music collection (sadly all WAV) is the same as media player, which is to say total crap. It is a big waste of space.

    3. Windows Media Centre - bring it back I miss it!

    4. New start menu. I got used to not having it in w8, the new version is clunky, bug ridden and I am sure that the use of live tiles is solely because MS is too embarrassed to ditch them. I guess I will be buying Stardock start10 or similar third party replacement.

    Overall a nice upgrade from Vista but not really worth it for w7 or 8
  • chrome_slinky - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    Tiles are not because of embarrassment. Tiles are there because of hubris. They want you to have things their way, whether you like it or not.
  • sorten - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    "Windows 8 works well in a touch scenario, but is not ideal for keyboard and mouse based devices."

    Brett, this is an interesting comment. Which mouse and keyboard features weren't working for you in Windows 8? I used Windows 8 on my home desktop from beta and my mouse and keyboard worked fine. I stopped using the Start button with Windows Vista because the search feature is much quicker, but even the missing Start button was fixable with 3rd party options.

    Oh well, on to Windows 10. Hopefully people try it before condemning it. Based on the tinfoil hat comments above I'm guessing they won't.
  • Brett Howse - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    I mean let's not open this debate again, but yes it works with a keyboard and mouse, but it is less than productive when you are in Windows Explorer, double click a photo to look at it, and a full screen photos app pops up and you can't see what you are doing anymore. There were so many of these examples. Everything worked yes, but productivity was not what it needed to be on that form factor.

    I mean think about out of the box Windows 8 and trying to reference a PDF. Windows Reader would open it full screen, and you would have to snap the desktop to half of the screen to work with it, and muck around with your windows. The solution that we all did was to stop using the new apps and go back to things like Adobe Reader on the desktop, but that's not a win for the platform and its new app model. If the new app model is not one that everyone uses, then you will never get quality apps built for it because it would only be available for a subset of users.
  • chrome_slinky - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    I got rid of it 3 days after launch, as I had been running it since February, and could take the irk no more. I would LOVE to see someone compile a list of the places where a right click has always produced a result, and no longer does anything - far from the BS about how the device will dictate the interface, which, if you think at all, means that desktop users should see no change in the way it works for them. That, of course, is NOT the case, proving the lie from Microshaft, and also showing they are either incapable or too lazy to implement things they had said they were going to.
  • Notmyusualid - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    PROUD 'Tin foil hatter' here...
  • chrome_slinky - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    Paid troll?
  • Michael Bay - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    Your envy is obvious.
  • Notmyusualid - Saturday, August 29, 2015 - link

    I don't get it - who, or what org would pay ME? For exposing Windows privacy failures? Who would pay for that? Why?
  • postwarscars - Saturday, September 5, 2015 - link

    Any competing entity? The point of advertisement isn't simply to sell something to someone, but also to dissuade the use of a similar product. Subversion in this space is not uncommon, so really the question should be why WOULDN'T they pay you to speak negatively of a product?

    Besides, weren't you worried about how much these companies supposedly think of you? How much they're interested in YOUR data. YOUR tendencies? YOUR life? If they care about your privacy, or any other random person's information, they would certainly care about your business as well.

    You know how you can't take someone at face value because you believe they're marketing to you? It's the same here, how do we know you aren't lying to us either?

    Perspective.
  • Alexey291 - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    The sad thing (sad for ms not for me, I really couldn't give a shit about Windows anymore, it's there to launch games/steam and occasionally office) is that all these little changes all these small adjustments all these features like cortana all come with what is essentially mistrust from the users.

    Because both Windows and Microsoft are at this point such toxic brands that whatever they do whatever they add will be hated (saying it lightly here) by a fairly large amount of people.

    I'm not going to upgrade because frankly there's no point doing so for me. Nothing I do in Windows will change because of 7 to 10 transition.
  • chrome_slinky - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    Used it as an Insider from February to 3 days after launch. I could stand the irk no more. Windows 10 is just warmed over 8, with more hubris, and more intrusion. Oh, and fewer places where a right click works as it did in Windows 7 and below.

    It has been easy to spot the appearance of paid trolls in all the usual places, along with journalists who usually approach things fairly, gushing over the crap that is Windows Last - one can only assume they have gotten their checks from Redmond.
  • Dribble - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Think they should have held off showing that "update to windows 10" box for a few months on windows 7 until they got the update process working better. Windows 7 machines are considerably older then windows 8 ones and you get all sorts of funny spec's some of which don't work.

    If they'd hidden the update the tech savy enthusiasts would have done it, found most of the problems and stuck solutions on the web somewhere or microsoft would have fixed them. As it is lots of relatively clueless people see the box and click on it to update, and it then breaks their machine. My father in law being a case in point, he phoned me up complaining that the update had made all his files read only and he had spent many hours on the phone to windows support (mostly waiting for someone to do something) and that hadn't fixed it.

    I (more sensibly) haven't updated to windows 10 yet, so I couldn't really help him.
  • chrome_slinky - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    My experience has been that updates go fine, if you're not an idiot, and have adequate disk space, even with much older hardware. The problem is all the irk you find after the upgrade has completed.
  • ScottSoapbox - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Windows 10 launched unfinished, but is rapidly getting updates. How long until windows as a service gets mostly feature complete / stable?

    I want to upgrade but avoid the early adopter headaches as I just too time starved. Thoughts?
  • jardows2 - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    I upgraded on day 2. Didn't have time to do it on day 1. No, I emphasize absolutely no headaches in my upgrade process or usage to this point. YMMV.
  • chrome_slinky - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    Perhaps in a couple of years. And that is ONLY if Microsoft loses their "you must have things OUR WAY" stance. Most of us have long since left behind the need for paternalistic companies thinking they know best.
  • jrs77 - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Windows 10 lags the Windows Classic UI. It also has too many of it's settings hidden away and not readily accesible. And the worst thing ofc is the Windows 10 EULA that allows Microsoft to deactivate any software I'm using at will, let alone them constantly scanning my entire system.

    No thanks, Windows 10 is total crap.
  • splashd - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    I love Windows 10 as a laptop OS. I looked forward to the promise of the 2-in-1. The lack of a swipe-able keyboard in tablet mode makes it non-competitive for applications that are primarily tablet-oriented. The tablet keyboard is horrible.
  • Cerif27 - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    When you guys get Cortana could you update? I have a Realsense camera (the same one you have) and I have had a heck of a time getting "Hey Cortana" to work consistently. Even pressing the mic icon gives me trouble sometimes. I've had no other trouble with it (except placement at my desk) so your input and thoughts would be appreciated.
  • yankeeDDL - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    I have upgraded to Windows 10 only for a few days, so mine are just the first impressions, however, the new Start Menu is still a massive disappointment.
    Quite frankly, for me, finding “anything” in the new menu, takes ages compared to the Windows-7 (or even Windows XP) style Start Menu.
    It may be subjective, but I see very little value added in the live tabs (new Xbox games! Yeah! Wait a minute, I don’t own an Xbox, why in the world would I care?): if I want news, I look at news, I don’t go to my Start Menu.
    I suppose it’s me.
    Anyway, as in Windows8, it got already replaced by the “Classic Start”. A pity, really, that to get improved performance and DirectX 12, I cannot stick to Windows 7, but I have to jump 3 (no less!) generations of Windows. I see the commercial needs of Microsoft but, hey, if you give it to me “for free”, why can’t you just update my Windows 7 instead? I liked it just fine …
    And, boy, if you are thinking about doing a fresh install instead, for the love of God, think again. “Nightmare”, doesn’t even begin to cut it.
  • nightbringer57 - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Well to be honest even windows 8 didn't change anything for me on the start menu issue.

    Just out of curiosity, is there any reason you would research things in the start menu manually?
    It's been years since I started pressing windows key, typing a few letter and finding what I wanted immediately.
    I had to use the windows XP style menu for a few months at work, and for me, it was a real pain in the ass, going back to this from windows 7/8 search (the 8 one has its flaws as well)
  • Mr Perfect - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    The menu is helpful when finding programs that you don't remember the name of, but recognize on sight. Whether it's something you only use once a month, or a brand new program you haven't memorized yet, you can't do a search for "The one with the pick axe icon" or "that expense report generator".
  • yankeeDDL - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    I use a lot the pinning function in Windows7, and have a lot of frequently used programs pinned both in teh start menu and in the taskbar. These cover 90% of the programs I use daily, which means I don't need to take my hands off the mouse to type, which is beneficial.
    In Windows8/10 pinning what I use goes below stuff I don't need (unless there's a way to bring it up, which I have not figured out). Still, there's just "too much stuff" in the Start menu now, and the majority of it, I don't use at all, so it bothers me that it is there.

    The remaining 10%, I used to find rather quickly as I managed my Start Menu with groups (folders). I used the search too, of course, but I appreciated the small, but clearly defined search window on Windows 7 menu. In windows 10 there's a gigantic search bar in the taskbar (removed instantly) and the Start Menu is searchable, but you have to start typing and, for example, it doesn't seem to show the previous searches, like Windows 7 did, which was also handy ...
    All in all, as I said, disappointing. It does not add any feature I need, and it removes, or somewhat complicates features I really liked and used.
    No biggie, because I go back to Classic Start (as I HAD to do in Windows 8/8.1), but still, feels like a missed opportunity.
  • tonytroubleshooter - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    the Start button, right-click options are welcomed, but.... that is all....
  • nightbringer57 - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    And, by the way (no edit), that's not 3 generations of windows, you're only jumping over one to get to the second one.
  • yankeeDDL - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Yes, I do use it often as well, but not always.
    I do have a relatively large of SW installed (in many cases, various versions of the same), and having folders sometimes helps. The rest is habit.
    I don’t claim that this is the way it should be, but, frankly, I have no use for the live tiles and Windows 7 menu seemed much cleaner and effective to me. Not perfect, but not too bad either.
    Windows 8 was preposterous. Windows 10 is better, but if I had to choose between the two, I’d still go for Windows 7.
  • Flash13 - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Windows 10 is still not ready for prime time. It's not bad, but that doesn't make it really good! Anyone on Anandtech staff on MS payroll?
  • wavetrex - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    *Installs Windows 13* Oh look, nice, shiny ! DirectX 15... Awesome VR games ... HELL YEA !

    Next day, two guys with a Microsoft logo on their uniforms ring the door:
    - Yes ?
    - We're from Microsoft, we're here to install these cameras in your apartment as part of your yesterday Free Windows 13 package.
    - Oh, ok.
    Guys finish, all the nice cameras are in every room with a bright red dot on them; They leave.
    - Eh... bye?
    *Goes back to gaming*

    Next day the doorbel, a woman and a man, with a Microsoft logo on their shoulder.
    - Yes?
    - We're from Microsoft, we're here to install here these microphones, movement sensors and the freshly new smell detectors, as part of your Free Windows 13 package.
    - Errr... ok ? Are they needed ?
    - Of course sir, it's standard procedure for Windows 13 !
    - Well, carry on.
    The people finish, there's all sorts of gadgets in every room, stuff glued to the wall, ceiling; They leave.
    *Thinks: Well, they must be needed. Back to gaming!*

    In the weekend, two hot nurses ring the door.
    - Hee... loo ?
    - Hi there, we're here to take a blood sample, urine sample, and do some tests on you, as part of your Free Windows 13 package.
    - Seriously?
    - Yes, everyone installing Windows 13 has to do it, standard procedure !
    - Uh... well, if it's standard...
    The girls take all the samples they need; Leave
    *Damn, I didn't new about this stuff... I wonder what they do with it*

    Next week, two big men ring the door.
    *Afraid to open, I ask loudly: YES??
    - Sir, you have to come with us. We're from Microsoft and we have decided that you need to be plugged into the Matrix as part of your Free Windows 13 package.
    - Plug into... what ?
    - OPEN THE DOOR or we'll open it for you.
    *Faints*

    ----
    Seriously, when do we draw the line?
  • prophet001 - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    We should have drawn it a long time ago.

    At the least we should draw it here.
  • BillyONeal - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    I think you need to pay attention to these: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman
  • Exodite - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    To be fair Slippery Slope is only a fallacy if you can't make a compelling argument for why it should apply.

    Microsoft's track record should suffice I'd say.

    Besides, a little hyperbole can help illustrating the point!
  • wavetrex - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    The story is obviously a joke...

    But still, if you would tell to someone in 1998 who installs Win 98 for the first time and enjoys his IE3/4 and Netscape websites that the operating system in 2015 will send pretty much everything to do to MS for analysis and "improving user experience" they would call you insane...

    (and probably say something like: The government won't allow that !!)

    Have you heard about the concept of the Boiling Frog ?
  • Oxford Guy - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Typical people would say insane. Others know that, since the purpose of law and government is to maintain elite privilege, the more connected people are, the more their privacy will be diminished.

    Information is power. People in power want to maintain their power and expand it. So, they will make a big deal of Hillary Clinton having "classified e-mail" but act as if the masses should not expect any privacy. So many IT sites have declared privacy dead and have long said only fools think e-mail is private and yet the government clearly thinks it deserves the right to have private e-mail.
  • boeush - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    That was amazing! You should be writing skits for SNL or the Comedy Channel. Seriously!
  • Nibholm - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Nice lifestyle article with few lazy canned tests. I would expect tech site to have even small tests to see difference between wddm 1.x and 2, universal apps vs win32 and so on... Also why use only windows 8 as comparison base, 7 would be much more relevant.
  • looncraz - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Windows 10 is an improvement over 8, sure, but it is still not as good as 7 for the desktop - but I think they can get there.

    Things they need:

    NO flat aesthetics! It's like moving to Windows 1.0, not 10.0.
    Simple application search in start menu - when I search, I don't get any of my apps - when I turned off web results, I didn't get any useful results!
    There's no easy way to add the computer icon to the desktop (10 calls it "This PC," of course, for no reason).
    The ability to select the types of updates to allow and to disable them easily.
    ---I can disable them entirely by setting the network connection to metered, or disabling the service, but neither are ideal options.
    Things I like:

    Multiple desktops (FINALLY!) Not only that, it is quite a nice implementation!
    Yeah, that's about it. I spent quite some time trying to think of something I like better in 10... maybe DX12 will be a killer feature for it? Time will tell.
  • wavetrex - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    You are not alone...
    Feels like 1 step forward, and a mile run back... Win 10 looks worse than '95 . No joke :(
  • imaheadcase - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    I can't move to it, on 3 computers it just keeps telling my upgrade failed, on my main PC here it says im out of hardrive space even though i got 200gigs free on SSD.

    So far win 10 has been the worst MS OS in upgrading.
  • imaheadcase - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    I should note that this is a very popular problem, many people can't simply upgrade because windows 10 is trying to use the system reserve space, but it does not take in account SSD system reserve space is smaller than a regular HD.

    Why MS could not figure this simple issue out for so long is beyond me.
  • imaheadcase - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    for those thinking "why not just increase is", because increasing system reserve also goes into regular HD space that could simply corrupt HD data on it already.

    I literally space a full day trying to figure this out. So unless MS has some magic patch on win update, i will be using win 8.1 for a long time.
  • brikbot - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    It sounds like you had the same problem I had with an old circa 2010 netbook - the following solved it for me at least:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/3a6znd...
  • jardows2 - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    I upgraded from Windows 7, and am using a 120 Gig SSD. No problems. Not something that will affect everyone.
  • Guspaz - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Snap Assist is infuriating, because it steals focus from the active window. I disabled it as soon as I could, because I was sick of snapping a window with my keyboard and then typing only to find that the window had lost focus to the stupid snap assist.
  • zlandar - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    No WMC = no upgrade. I still watch and record cable programming with my HTPCs.
  • Uplink10 - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Is Windows 10 still incapable of making more than one partition on a USB key?
  • lilmoe - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    You got me curious. For what purpose would you need to do that?

    I tried, and no it doesn't work.
  • Uplink10 - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    One partition for booting, second one for Linux OS, third for data, take your pick.
  • lilmoe - Thursday, August 27, 2015 - link

    Well if it works using Linux, then what's the problem?
  • emilemil1 - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    The "Share a OneDrive link" button isn't something new, it's been there on both Win7 and 8 for like a year now.

    http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014...
  • Brett Howse - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    So I may be mistaken on the exact dates it came to 8.1, but it was in Windows 10 in the first release on October 1st. I don't recall seeing it added to 8.1 before that. Anyway regardless nice find I'll add a note in the review.
  • piasabird - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    A lot of these features in Windows 10 can simply be turned off. Some of them can be turned off during the initial boot up and install by selecting the advance settings and turning them off. I will admit that some of the settings seem to be hidden a bit or simply are in a different place. Some of the Internet settings that affect the browser cant be accessed inside of Edge?
  • BMNify - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    upgraded my windows 8.1 laptop to 10, looks like a good improvement and Cortana is awesome.
  • bernstein - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    The spyware aspect of this OS bothers me. I'll be using Windows 7 until this is reconsidered.
  • Oxford Guy - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    They're pushing out loads of "updates" that add the spyware in.
  • sadsteve - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Well, all I can say is that the GUI, start menu, privacy and update issues have motivated me to seriously look at linux for my main machine for day to day activities. Most of the applications I currently use are open source or cross platform (Libre Office, jEdit, eclipse, Firefox, Thunderbird, etc) so making the switch shouldn't be too hard. Probably do dual boot so I have access to all my steam games and PhotoShop.
  • wavetrex - Friday, August 28, 2015 - link

    You're not alone brother...
    I've been a die-hard "windowser" since the days of Win 3.0, always saying "linux sux, it's behind, can never do the things windows does... etc."
    Mint 17.2 'Rafaela' runs now on my 2nd SSD soooo smoothly. Moving more and more activities to it every day.
    I guess that gaming will be the last one to "die" on winblowz.
  • Mr Perfect - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Does the stylus input only work with printed handwriting, or can it parse cursive? If it can digitize cursive, I could see it being very quick. The difference between on-screen keyboards and printing with individual letters would be close to a wash, though.
  • Brett Howse - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    So, I did try cursive. I found out two things. The ability for it to recognize words correctly is even more astounding, and my cursive is even worse than my handwriting. It did seem to handle the small amount of cursive I could remember how to write, but I think on this one YMMV. Best to try it out in a store if you can.
  • chrome_slinky - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    For most of us, handwriting IS cursive, and printing is printing.
  • keg504 - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    I understand in context that when you say screen diameter you mean the diagonal length of the screen, but your use makes me wonder if we'll ever see a round Windows 10 device
  • Brett Howse - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    For those commenting on the privacy concerns with Windows 10, I have updated the privacy page (page 18). Microsoft has a FAQ which goes over every single setting in Windows 10, what it is used for, and how to disable it.
  • Oxford Guy - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    And how Microsoft will ignore some of these settings and still send data to itself?
  • Brett Howse - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    Yes actually.

    As you use Windows, we collect performance and usage information that helps us identify and troubleshoot problems as well as improve our products and services. We recommend that you select Full for this setting.

    •Basic information is data that is vital to the operation of Windows. This data helps keep Windows and apps running properly by letting Microsoft know the capabilities of your device, what is installed, and whether Windows is operating correctly. This option also turns on basic error reporting back to Microsoft. If you select this option, we’ll be able to provide updates to Windows (through Windows Update, including malicious software protection by the Malicious Software Removal Tool), but some apps and features may not work correctly or at all.

    Enhanced data includes all Basic data plus data about how you use Windows, such as how frequently or how long you use certain features or apps and which apps you use most often. This option also lets us collect enhanced diagnostic information, such as the memory state of your device when a system or app crash occurs, as well as measure reliability of devices, the operating system, and apps. If you select this option, we’ll be able to provide you with an enhanced and personalized Windows experience.

    •Full data includes all Basic and Enhanced data, and also turns on advanced diagnostic features that collect additional data from your device, such as system files or memory snapshots, which may unintentionally include parts of a document you were working on when a problem occurred. This information helps us further troubleshoot and fix problems. If an error report contains personal data, we won’t use that information to identify, contact, or target advertising to you. This is the recommended option for the best Windows experience and the most effective troubleshooting.
  • nwoghost - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Great review. I've been waiting for this...now I feel I can upgrade with full consent haha.
  • xebico - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Nice overview of what Windows 10 begins to the table, but I'll still buy you a beer to refresh your memory about the difference between "that" and "which." ;)
  • MarekZe - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    All parents: Windows 10 totally dropped Parental Control.
    There is no way to setup restrictions for apps or times that kids are allowed to use the computer without creating "Microsoft Account" (btw- how it is COPPA compliant? ) - so with local account no way to use parental control.
    So you have to create Microsoft account - that means you need to provide email address for your kid, and needlesly pass PII info to Microsoft, add family members to "Family" and do rudimentary setup in web application.
    Even if you do that you can't set up time schedule for computer usage - something that worked very well in Windows 7.
    Big step backwards in usability and features.
  • Deelron - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    It's "ok" since you can get a weekly email of their activity by default...
    https://boingboing.net/2015/08/10/windows-10.html
  • boeush - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Seems like a pretty huge and notable regression, if indeed true - definitely worthy of first-class treatment in the review article!
  • Brett Howse - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    It's OK it's not true you can set Screen Time on a per day basis with pretty granular settings.
  • Brett Howse - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    All of the screen time settings are on the web now and they are very robust. Please check that out.
  • ciparis - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    "in a bit to make it usable with the tablet form factor"

    I think you meant bid.
  • Ryan Smith - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Right you are. Thanks!
  • Glock24 - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Why didn't anyone mention the ugly font rendering in "modern" apps, notification center, settings, or anything that uses the new metro/modern/store apps framework?

    The UI scaling also seems half baked and inconsistent. When not using 100% scaling (on my laptop it defaults to 150%, everything looks ugly. I changed it to 100% but some system dialogs seem bypass my settings and show bigger fonts than it should.

    UI scaling in OS X is light years ahead (and no, I'm not a Mac user, my primary OS is Linux).

    The flat dull gray "theme" looks ugly in my opinion has poor contrast, making it difficult for sure people to easily spot the scroll bar in some programs. Also active or inactive windows look not very different.

    Why have two control panels? What's even worse is that not all settings are available in neither of them.
  • Glock24 - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Oh I forgot to mention the forced updates and no changelog from MS. These constant forced updates will change functionality or add creatures in the future. It's like all windows 10 users are beta testers.
  • Oxford Guy - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    The scroll bars in the Mac OS have regressed tremendously. They're small and grey and disappear.
  • Oxford Guy - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    And I haven't used it a lot, but Yosemite seems to make it hard to even resize windows by dragging the bottom corner. It's like there is a deal between Apple and MS to worsen the UIs.
  • chrome_slinky - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    The UI is the worst Microshaft has ever produced. Mostly due to laziness. Just look at many things just a couple of levels down, and you see essentially things identical to Windows 7 or earlier - ALL OF THIS with the paid shills swearing Microsoft has COMPLETELY REWRITTEN Windows.

    That doesn't even pass the Homer Simpson test.
  • bigboxes - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    Please stop. You've made your opinion perfectly clear. However, you don't need to spam up the comments section. You're don't have the only opinion. I may even agree with you on the ultimate fail of Win10, but you're not helping your cause any by repeatedly saying the same thing.
  • tonytroubleshooter - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Gotta love WIndows.. i dont understand, if a GUI lets you click an icon so you dont have to open it, and a shortcut icon can take you to that icon, then WTF else do you really need in a GUI? not more shortcuts to shortcuts... but I guess i am wrong... so wrong.. .lol oh yeah libraries.. oh my god dont get me started on those, : takes a shot of vodka ; for shame Microsoft for shame....
  • tonytroubleshooter - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    CORRECTION:
    if a GUI lets you click an icon so you dont have to type it out**
  • Norzman - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    You need to correct the line about there not being folders in the Windows 10 start menu under "All Apps". Both of my windows 10 machines have folders in the start menu apps list. It looks like this http://imgur.com/tBwwg6R
  • Brett Howse - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Thanks for that I've re-worded the text.
  • uhuznaa - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    To be honest, I (finally!) like the direction MS is going here, with the possible exception that there is still too much cruft they didn't toss out. OK, MS is cursed with having to provide 20 years or so of backward compatibility, but Windows had grown into an unmanageable mess.

    There's still lots of work to do, but this is the first time in a very long while that I think MS is going somewhere instead of stagnating and sooner or later being left behind. MS can count itself lucky that Google did never even try to make Android more suitable for desktops or things would have looked much, much worse for MS meanwhile than they do. Sometimes I really think Google knows very well that with a bit of work Android could be on the way to World Domination and they deliberately let this slip (apart from smartphones) just to not find themselves in a nasty monopoly situation a bit further down the road. I mean, if they had just added a cleaner model for third-party drivers, better mouse/keyboard support and multitasking/split-screen support and I guess half of the usual desktop computers could just as well be replaced with Android on ARM machines now. And in fact despite all the security/privacy shortcomings in Android it's still far ahead compared to Windows.

    All the PC-nerds here stuck in the good old times will never understand this, but from the POV of modern mobile OS'es the usual PC environment is a nightmare. Little to no sandboxing, little to no rights management for apps ("programs" for you) and hardware... The fact that every bit of code on a PC still can access the microphone and camera and happily read all files in reach really feels like a thing of the distant past in 2015.
  • Ananke - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    If Google make Android a full desktop OS, they will end up paying so much royalties to MS, that MS will actually make more money that way, instead of selling its own products. Even now, MS is the biggest monetary beneficent of Android anyway. Btw, another reason to not have good accessories support in Android - MS holds so many patents in that area. Why do you think MS is in the business of keyboards, mice, cameras, game controllers etc etc input devices ? It holds patents and collects royalties. Hefty royalties.
  • chrome_slinky - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    It is that way only because no one has the balls to go to court. No one has PROVEN that they own any of what is in Android.
  • uhuznaa - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    Technically Android already DOES support USB- and BT-keyboards and mice. What lacks is the basic comfort of shortcuts, context menus and (international) keyboard layouts. I doubt that this would conflict with any (more) MS patents, especially since even every Linux desktop offers lots of convenience here... And isn't there split screen support in Android M now anyway?

    Also, I'm not talking about "a full desktop" OS. I'm talking about supporting convenient, basic support for using the bloody thing on laptops and desktops. It would be more of a "full desktop OS" than ChromeOS (which doesn't seem to cause too much patent trouble for Google by the way), but less than Windows. Android lacks just very little here, but what it lacks still makes it a bad choice for anything you use mainly with a keyboard and a mouse.
  • brucek2 - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Has Microsoft made any (binding, enforceable) promises about functionality that is currently free / included going premium subscription in the future?

    Because of the aggressive promotion, initial no charge, and very one sided rules about no consumer control of updates, I am concerned that the ultimate plan is for Win 10 to start charging monthly fees for ever-increasing subsets of functionality. The early example is solitaire, formerly free in previous Windows versions but now requiring a monthly fee. I don't care about that game in particular but MS has plenty of levers it could move that I do care about: i.e., "premium" charges for running more than X apps at a time, or using more than Y GB of RAM, or using disk speeds above 100 MB/sec, etc etc etc.

    What if anything is to stop them from a "boil the frog" approach where the update that is initially free is soon $25/month or more for the same level of functionality within a couple years?
  • jeffkibuule - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Microsoft can never prove a negative, so there's nothing to say there.

    Tons of consumer protection laws protect against selling you X and then trying to charge Y for the same thing via an update.
  • Oxford Guy - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    So discontinue "10" early and change the terms for the "10.1" or "11" "upgrade".
  • chrome_slinky - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    But according to Microshaft, this is Windows Last. All there is and there is no more, other than constant updates breaking things, until the hardware you own is no longer supported. You've EOL'd from Windows.
  • boeush - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    With respect to the new mandatory auto-update mechanism, I assume the system recovery feature and restore points are still around? If one could always rollback to some previous known-stable system configuration, then all MS would need to do (relative to Win 7 - don't know about Win 8) is automatically keep a large number of restore points spanning at least a couple of months - and add the ability to block a specific update from installing again in the future. Then on the rare occasion that MS screws the pooch by trashing a couple billion PCs worldwide, the process to fix them would be relatively painless for the end-users...
  • Oxford Guy - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    Who doesn't want huge amounts of I/O going toward that, as well as storage space and processing power?

    Or, they could just stop force-feeding people.
  • boeush - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    Who said anything about 'huge'? In the same way as version control systems, they only need to store the change 'delta' - and they can compresstge hell put of that data as well (fast or frequent I/O on those files wouldn't be a priority.)
  • boeush - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    Damn phone keyboards and no edit function on posts...

    "...compress the hell out of..." - was what I *meant* to write.
  • vladx - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    The OneDrive changes, Windows Update new restrictions will keep on Windows 8.1 until they offer the option to have the old ways back.
  • dragonsqrrl - Tuesday, August 25, 2015 - link

    I've been waiting patiently for this, thank you!
  • takeship - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    Is there are run down of the new/updated tablet features of windows 10, or did I miss that? Does Win10 make any/noticable changes or improvements for touch users?
  • Brett Howse - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    Page 4 on Continuum. Overall it's a slight step back on touch.
  • marvdmartian - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    [from the last page of the article] "But is this going to be the upgrade to move people off of Windows 7? In my opinion, yes it is."

    Perhaps in your world. Not so much, in mine. Nor, in many people I've talked to, who are equally unimpressed with this latest version of Windows.

    In fact, so far, what I've seen (though, I admit, not yet experienced) of W10, I'd label it more of a Windows 8.2.....maybe 8.25. Still blocky looking. Still looks like the icons were drawn by a 3rd grader (no offense to the average 8 year old). Still.....just plain UGLY.

    I understand the reasoning for the postage stamp sized blocks, as it makes touch interface much easier. But if they want TRUE switch-ability between touch interface and mouse/keyboard usage, they need to change the look of things, to go with the 2nd choice. Then there's also the return to the 90's screen resolution. Necessary for touch interface, perhaps. But when a person has spent hundreds of dollars on a high resolution monitor, then "upgrades" to Windows 10 (8.25?), they do NOT want to have to dial back their resolution to that which was supported first by what? Windows 98??

    And don't even get me started in on the privacy issues. Yes, some people might not have a problem with the information Microsoft is gathering. But I'm betting plenty more will, once they're made aware of it. And for MS to force you to opt OUT of information gathering, makes them somewhat "big brother"-ish, in my book.

    Sorry, Brett, but in my book, Microsoft is quickly striking out with this operating system. As far as their support of Windows 7, don't be surprised if they don't extend it, just as they did with Windows XP, if the majority of 7 users don't bother upgrading to 10.
  • chrome_slinky - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    Unfortunately, for people who think, we must realize that the average user IS stupid, and FREE is making them weak in the knees.

    I will be on Windows 7 until 2020 at least, and carefully removed the "updates" which install more telemetry from my list of updates.

    BTW, you could always use the "illudium235 space modulator" to take care of things, couldn't you? <g>
  • uhuznaa - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    I'm sick of repeating this over and over but you really shouldn't confuse "is not interested in how computers work" with "stupid". I've seen people who are really bright in their fields totally struggling with their computers because they're just not interested in nor care for how these things work.

    It's like calling you "stupid" because you are not interested in knitting your own sweaters. I bet there are thousands of things you don't care for and are not interested in which others who are not necessarily smarter than you are really good in.

    On the other hand not understanding this may be reason enough to call you stupid.
  • Michael Bay - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    So, it`s you and your two and a half friends. Such tremendous loss for MS, certainly, somewhere in some basement Nadella is crying crocodile tears.
  • Da W - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    I moved from the FRENCH version of windows 7 to the FRENCH version of windows 8 to the FRENCH update of windows 8.1, somehow it installed the ENGLISH version of windows 10.
  • chrome_slinky - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    Zut alors!
  • Billy_Boy - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    The most thorough, well thought out review of ANY product I have read in a long, long time.

    Bravo!
  • milkod2001 - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    I gave it a try and got w10 installed on top of my w7. All took about 30 minutes. All applications/games are working which is great. But that got me thinking what is WINDOWS 10?

    It feels just like windows 7.1 upgrade. New graphic interface, better boot time and slightly faster copy of files. OK lets not forget dx12 and Cortana. It took MS 6 years since release of w7 to put together this massive update and call it w10. Now i get why MS gave it to us for FREE. It just could not dare to charge us for bunch of mediocre updates.

    Happy w10 user here :)

  • azazel1024 - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    Can I just say, if you are coming from Windows 7, Windows 10 is a fairly nice upgrade. If you are coming from Windows 8.1, especially if you have a touch interface, it is a serious reversion in almost every possible way. Most of the apps seems half finished at best. As eluded to in the story, the mail client is about 10 steps back from the one in 8.1. How basic is it to have the ability to change from conversation view? Photos app doesn't support the ability to view images by folder (which can be nice instead of seeing every single one of your pictures spread out by date). Edge can't download some file types, so you have to open them in IE11. If you want to change audio volume, there is no option to do that in the action center (plenty of room for a button for it). So for a tablet, you have to pull up the task bar to do it, which doesn't make sense. Want to change a wifi network? Oh, there is a button in the action center to do...oh, it only turns Wifi on and off...but, wait, there is an airplane mode button also in there to do that. Oh, you can long press on the wifi button, then go in to settings and then select a different wifi network. Want to change the brightness to anything other than 25/50/75/100%, long press again and go in to settings and then you can adjust it from 0-100% in 1% increments. But...why can't there at least be a 0% brightness on that short cut button? 25% is too bright in a dark room. WHY!

    Sooooooo much of Windows 10 from what I have seen is "why in the hell would you do it that way?" Sure, some stuff in 8.1 was non-intuitive and took awhile to get used to, but a lot of stuff was a quick gesture and done. Want to change the brightness or audio? Swipe in the charms bar, hit the button and adjust away. Now they are found in different places and one of them takes several extra actions to really be able to adjust where you want it. Many of the apps have lost functionality, even if they look a little nicer or have a few new and nice features. I love that Edge is faster, but it sucks for touch input now and a lot of features have been lost that were highly useful, even with keyboard and mouse input.

    Windows 10 at best feels half finished as an operating system. I don't mean "they'll innovate the 'OS as a Service that is Windows 10'". I mean, they needed to have spent at least a few more months baking this thing before sending it out the door and if a lot of this stuff isn't "changed" or give the user the ability to customize (why not add more options that you can add to the action center? What about allowing the user to ELIMINATE options in the action center too, I don't need half the crap that is in there as a short cut) then frankly Win 10 is a big step backward in a lot of ways.

    I am willing to give it a try for awhile, but I am itching every single day to reload Windows 8.1 on my Asus T100. I am certainly not going to load Windows 10 on any of my other machines for a very long time to come (either right before the 1 year upgrade period ends, or possibly never).
  • boeush - Thursday, August 27, 2015 - link

    When had MS *ever* released a new product version (whether OS or not) that wasn't half-baked? This is SOP for MS. The rule of thumb with MS products has always been, and continues to be: unless you want to bleed on the bleeding edge, wait for SP1 before installing.
  • Fiernaq - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    The ability to scroll inactive windows is awesome. I currently use a third party tool to gain that functionality called X Mouse Button Control. There's one other feature I use that program for, though, and if that feature is also included in Windows 10 then I can finally drop that program (as nice as it is) from my list of "install this on every computer I ever use" apps. That other feature is desktop icon placement saving/loading with keyboard shortcut. Does anyone know if this feature has made it into Windows 10 yet?
  • thekdub - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    I like it. I upgraded from Win 7 Ultimate on a 5 y/o HP laptop as a sort of test platform before making the jump on my gaming desktop that currently has 8.1 Pro installed. No issues with the upgrade, definitely a lot easier than reinstalling Win 7 on a new SSD which was an absolute nightmare. Boot time is actually faster on the laptop, and it feels quicker overall despite having mostly older/slower hardware (though it does have a technically faster 850 EVO vs the 840 EVO in the desktop). I barely had any driver issues with the upgrade despite the outdated hardware, and even the otherwise terrible Radeon mobile drivers work like a charm without having to resort to Leshcat drivers. The UI looks cleaner and it's a pretty easy transition from 7 as far as usability. Most things are where you'd expect them to be and it's not hard to figure out the rest.

    I did end up installing Classic Shell as I still prefer how it organizes the start menu, although I do really like the ability to add and customize live tiles with the new start menu (however, they do take up more space than I'd like and it's quite ugly when you only have 3-4 tiles). I also had to use Classic Shell to match the color of my start menu and taskbar to my desktop, as the default options end up being pretty ugly outside of grey or black.

    With that being said, I'll wait till DX12 rolls out before I upgrade my desktop. I've been pretty happy with 8.1 once I installed Classic Shell and until games start using DX12 I see no real reason to upgrade right now. I anticipate the transition will be even easier with hardware that actually has Win 10 drivers available.
  • mrbofus - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    "With this release, the system now supports pen input for any text field. Let me say this again. Any text field now supports pen input."

    Wow, I would have assumed this was the case back with Windows 7, or at least 8. Crazy.
  • mrbofus - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    Great write-up, Brett! I love all the topics you cover in-depth! Excellent work.
  • HerveS94 - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    edge has so much potential, but so it has a long way to go before it takes over google chrome in terms of features etc.
  • Ratman6161 - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    Well its very sad that this turned into an I hate Microsoft rant/pissing contest practically with the first comment. What a waste of time. Windows 10 is not mandatory for anybody so if you don't like it and don't want it, then don't use it. Stick with whatever version you have if you want to or go download your favorite Linux distro if you don't want to use Windows at all.

    Or if you want to talk about it, please try to have an intelligent discussion. This is rapidly turning into the sort of mutual flame war that inevitably causes me to give up on web sites...or at least disregard their comments section.
  • Oxford Guy - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    "If you don't like Stalin killing people then don't live in Russia!"

    "If you don't like people running over grandmothers for fun with their cars then move out of that neighborhood!"

    "And, no one needs to use Windows once Windows 7 is no longer updated with security updates rather than hidden telemetry."
  • dmacfour - Friday, August 28, 2015 - link

    What an idiotic comparison.

    Nobody chooses to live in a authoritarian nation. You can't just opt out of it and choose a new country.

    Windows is a product that you choose to buy. They are legally mandated to serve you or your best interests. If you don't like it, use a competitor's OS, it's as simple as that.
  • mrbofus - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    "they are also scalable and can work on small phones, all the way up to large desktop devices, with different layouts depending on"

    On the "Mail, Calendar, and People" page, the last sentence of the second paragraph just cuts off mid-sentence.
  • Brett Howse - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    Thanks for the catch on that one :)
  • abhaxus - Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - link

    Had a full screen takeover/scrolling ad when trying to read this article. Similar to the Tom's Hardware ads. I don't read that website anymore, and I will stop reading this one if it continues to happen.
  • Anne Druide - Thursday, August 27, 2015 - link

    Only 30 minutes in and it is obvious to me that Microsoft has dropped the ball it had picked up with Windows 8.1. (1) Microsoft's efforts at fixing Windows continue to be APITA (a pain you know where)! WHY did they have to completely obliterate the Charms? Why not just have left them along the right side of the new Action Center? I mean really? Did that NOT cross any of the brilliant minds at MS? WHY remove such a distinctive and unique feature of 8.1. Why not integrate it into 10? (2) Furthermore, just as 8.1 had swung maybe (maybe not) too far towards the tiles, 10 has swung WAY too far towards the desktop. Now, to get to the Metro Tiles Menu it takes TWO steps! Why in the world does pressing the offscreen Window button bring up the Start Menu INSTEAD of the Metro Menu? The Start Menu ALREADY has its own Window icon! And what's a TOTAL WASTE is that pressing on the offscreen Windows button while in Tablet mode and on the Metro Menu does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! It does not even bring up the Start Menu which would have been a great idea! Duh! (3) Finally, I feel that MS has lied about BRINGING BACK THE START BUTTON! Clicking on the Windows button located where the Start button was in Windows 7 does NOT bring anything up even remotely close to what we had in Windows 7! When I press the Start button I DON'T wanna see tiles; I wanna see all the practical functionality of what came up in Windows 7 when I pressed Start! INSTEAD, I get a very confusing flotsam and jetsam mish-mash of everything under the sun instead of quick access to the Control Panel and Task Bar content and...OMG there's no longer any user control of Windows Update?!!! All in all, my first 30 minutes with Windows 10 has been, as you can tell, VERY disappointing! WHY is it SO HARD for MS to JUST GET IT RIGHT! This is NOT even close to what Windows 10 SHOULD be. This is a limping Windows 9 with the 10 thrown in JUST not to look light years behind Apple's OS X whose TEN has been a thorn in the side of MS for how many years now?!
  • mapesdhs - Thursday, August 27, 2015 - link

    Still looks to me like MS wants people to have a phone interface on a desktop, which is stupid. So many things once again look incredibly unprofessional, and the lack of configurability is just ridiculous. It makes the coding of this latest release look so amateurish. The smiley in the very first review image is typical. I could make a list of everything else which is stupid (eg. no Save As from right-button), but who has the time, and I'm sure the 22 pages of comments have covered them all already.

    I don't want to use an OS that looks like a phone interface. I'll keep using Win7 until MS offers something sensible.
  • straighttalk - Thursday, August 27, 2015 - link

    Totally useless review. No content, just a lot of opinion. Where's the beef? What are the issues? What problems are people who upgrade having?
  • SteelRing - Thursday, August 27, 2015 - link

    WiFi Sense is the antithesis of privacy and security, you should allow it if you are naive or an MS worshipper or both. Should you upgrade from Win8(.1)? For sure... Should you upgrade from Win7? I'd say if it aint broke dont fix it. I'm personally glad that Win10 finally allows me to buy laptop again, laptop that works and not just a toy. I want a keyboard and a mouse with my computer and Win10 finally lets me have it again. People who want to smear their screens with their fingers seem to be happy with Win10 too, none of my business though. If Win10 had not come out I'd be scavanging refurb laptops with Win7, thank goodness I don't have to.
  • Oxford Guy - Thursday, August 27, 2015 - link

    Microsoft is apparently doing its best to make sure it is broken. Here is a list I found of patches to avoid, due to things like added in "telemetry" (spying) or bug introduction:

    KB3075249, KB3080149, KB2505438, KB2670838, KB2952664, KB2976978 (8 only), KB3021917, KB3035583, KB3075249
  • Notmyusualid - Saturday, August 29, 2015 - link

    Thanks, but cleared out a couple of those already.
  • Zak - Thursday, August 27, 2015 - link

    "for most people, they will make the trade-off of less privacy if it means an improved experience. The textbook example here is advertising, where in order to deliver relevant ads to the user (or rather not serve them useless ads) the ad service must be able to learn something about the user and their preferences" -- Are you out of your mind??? Trade my privacy for relevant ads? You ought to be on drugs or MS is paying you to post this drivel. Nobody likes to be blasted with ads, relevant or not. If they system really wants to learn something it is this: NOBODY LIKES ADS.
  • jameskatt - Friday, August 28, 2015 - link

    The absolutely WORSE thing about Windows 10 is now much it is tracking you - tracking the websites you read, the apps you use, tracking how much time you spend on a web page, etc. And you cannot turn this tracking off. It is totally creepy that Windows includes so much spying.

    Some parents may love this in that they get a monthly report from Microsoft of every webpage and app their children use.

    But for the vast majority of users and parents, this is simply unacceptable.

    Someone has to give us a privacy utility to block Microsoft from tracking us so heavily.
  • Brett Howse - Friday, August 28, 2015 - link

    If you are talking about Family Safety, it needs to explicitly be turned on, and it's been there since Vista. And, when you log in, there is a prompt every time letting you know the account is monitored with family safety. This is not new to Windows 10.
  • jameskatt - Friday, August 28, 2015 - link

    Privacy is a concern. After all, Microsoft IS STORING your data on its servers. And it can EXTRACT THAT DATA in order to send you reports about activities on your computers.

    So OBVIOUSLY, someone else can gain access to that data - for example the GOVERNMENT, THE NSA, THE FBI, THE POLICE, HACKERS, LAWYERS, etc. Anyone who wants data on you can obtain it straight from Microsoft. Microsoft has built the ultimate tracking system into Windows 10.
  • Notmyusualid - Friday, August 28, 2015 - link

    I completely agree.
  • name99 - Saturday, August 29, 2015 - link

    Shorter Brett (and a million other MS fans):
    "a thousand bugs, limitations, restrictions, and not yet implemented features that, on an Apple OS would be considered utterly unacceptable, are just fine in this context because it's MS'.

    I'm glad that MS has (finally) stepped up its game to some extent --- for example I hope the WiFi Sense stuff puts pressure on Apple to get its act together in this area --- but, come on, you know I am right about. Every damn page contains an apology for some problem or other with the OS. MS released this WAYYYY too soon; and unlike Apple they don't even have the excuse that "oh, we had to do it to hit our hardware dates" (an excuse that is wearing very thin with Apple, and if they can't release iOS 9 and OSX 10.11 essentially bug-free, I think it's time to decouple the OS releases from the new phone hardware, starting next year).
  • Vinchent - Saturday, August 29, 2015 - link

    I think that the key words for Windows 10 are redundancy and inconsistency. Ok, I've installed the new OS over W8 a couple of weeks ago, so it's a bit early to judge any OS whatsover but ""A good beginning makes a good ending".
    Dear Microsoft, we don't want apps. Do you get it? No apps on desktop machines. By now, 99% of desktop users use their PC only to work or play.
    We don't e won't use Cortana, we are faster by using mouse+keyboard.
    We will never open an app, we just use the browser for almost anything.
    We just use Edge to download Chrome (or whatever). Yeah it's good, but it's too late now.
    We are not happy with having 2 Control panels. 99% of the time, if we want to set things up, we will use the classic tools, which are way more powerful.
    My dream? When I install the new W10 I'd like to have just 2 options: Baby mode (with apps, cortana, edge) and classic mode (no apps, no redundancy, no garbage).
  • Ignatzz - Saturday, August 29, 2015 - link

    So how come everybody I know who's upgraded thinks Windows 10 stinks? As for me, it just won't upgrade - it fails every time.

    But there's also this:

    "Windows 7 is used by hundreds of millions of people, but its touch support is practically zero."

    Maybe that means there's still a large market for no touch screen. Speaking for myself, I see why you'd want touch screen on a computer that you carry with you, but I have zero interest in it for a home computer. The keyboard simply works better, and getting rid of it offers no real advantage.
  • Ignatzz - Saturday, August 29, 2015 - link

    I've often said that Windows does a good job with every OTHER operation system. XP was good, Vista was lousy. Windows 7 was good. Windows 8 was lousy.

    By going from 8 right to 10, they seem to have skipped the good one.
  • jabber - Saturday, August 29, 2015 - link

    Oh anyone who uses the term 'M$' loses all credibility instantly.

    Be a little more original please. Otherwise you look like 'new kid on the internet'.
  • cjcox - Monday, August 31, 2015 - link

    Article was a bit too "pro Microsoft" without pointing out all of the losses of feature / functionality, especially vs. Windows 7. I know we had to put the Zune software onto our Windows 10 because of all the features lacking in Groove. And the Zune software isn't supported anymore, but still the only full featured product that Microsoft made. Oh well. Microsoft continues to take many steps backwards... hard to figure out what their end goal is. So... Microsoft 10 adds features you likely don't care about, didn't ask for and removes many things you used to use. That's a better summary review.
  • cjs150 - Tuesday, September 1, 2015 - link

    cjcox: Having used w10 for several weeks now, I completely agree about Groove - I went back to Windows Media Player.

    There are good points and bad points in w10 (multiple desktops good, new start menu bad), but it feels slightly faster than w8.1 on my NUC
  • SeleniumGlow - Wednesday, September 2, 2015 - link

    What about the changes and enhancements to the Audio stack. The new windows 10 Audio stack is redesigned completely so that it reduces inputs and recording latency. This supposedly makes windows 10 Audio API on par with something like ASIO, by reserving a complete CPU core.
  • Rickkins1 - Thursday, September 3, 2015 - link

    Bwahahahaha, this is comedy gold. Browse microsoft's forums to see the multitude of complaints about win10 breaking sound cards etc.
  • Rickkins1 - Wednesday, September 2, 2015 - link

    I'd just like to thank microsoft for that totally unbiased review of windows10.

    But seriously, c'mon, will ya...?? Do you really take us for complete idiots...??

    At least have the honesty to label such a piece as "advertisement".
  • Oracv4Prez - Friday, September 4, 2015 - link

    Amongst all the glow and gushing comments I think that Windows 10 is horribly flawed. Lets start with the upgrade: Th new font renders incredibly poorly on my screen (1920 x 1200) Samsung and looks horribly blocky - like an ancient PC from the 80's. Secondly, half of the programs dont work anymore and when I tried to open Microsoft's own office applications, the links all failed.

    SO you want to try out Edge??? No doubt it is faster for all the sites I visit. But...what about your bookmarks/favorites. It wont except anything but IE 11 and if you have them neatly sorted and try to move from another browser to IE the organisation dies.

    And finally when you think you have a few things working, it crashes. Oh well, we all have the dreaded blue screen of death now and them. It politely tells you that there is an error so it will restart. You could wait --- and wait ... and wait for something to happen, but no - nothing!!!!

    Tried the solutions on the web, but obviously there are still a LOT of holes to patch. Oh, and the last update (before I banished it) did more damage than the initial install, causing perfectly functioning applications to crash/or the link to disappear.

    Rating: - pre-beta software status. Use at your peril!
  • TheReviewWriter - Monday, September 7, 2015 - link

    I love it Very smooth makes me feel organized and smart LOL :)
  • Ramon Zarat - Monday, September 14, 2015 - link

    No matter how you slice it, Windows 10 is a step in a VERY wrong direction. If the product is free, YOU become the product. I *HATE* this business model consisting of trading most if not all your privacy *AND* control over your product for $149.00 (typical Windows license price).

    The entire M$ product portfolio is going into that direction. Their first failed move was the Metro atrocity to force you into the M$ store with Windows 8. Then you had Office 365 you rent for a monthly fee FOREVER instead of owning the product. Then they tried to impose an "always on" connection to the XB1 + restriction on sharing games and failed miserably. Now, it's the turn of the entire OS to be free, but at what price?

    I'm a paying M$ customer since Windows 95 but this time, I'll wait until a fully hacked and fully sanitized version of Windows 10 comes out, including with the choice to install or not "upgrades" from Windows update and turning off and all the spyware shit for good.

    I want to own my stuff, not rent them forever, not for free with tons of negative impacts either. I want to control what I own. I want my data stored locally, not in the cloud. And finally, I don't want to share anything that concerns only me. The *ONLY* technological improvement Windows 10 bring to the table compared to Windows 7 that is worthy of mention to me is DirectX12. If hackers can one day bring DX12 to Win7, I'll simply never upgrade.
  • clarkrptg - Tuesday, September 15, 2015 - link

    I would think twice about upgrading to Windows 10. I did so and now have a completely unusable computer with a black screen. I guess I should have known better,but don't understand how Microsoft gets away with this crap over and over and over again. I am moving to Mac . . . no doubt about it. I googled the issue and find a comment from Microsoft, oh, gosh golly,yes, resulting black screens are a problem. Oh, gee whiz, sorry about that. Take your computer into a Microsoft store, blah, blah, put back to factory settings, blah, blah. I have a suggestion for you Microsoft . . . I WILL NEVER BUY ANOTHER MICROSOFT COMPUTER AGAIN.
  • Miller1331 - Tuesday, December 1, 2015 - link

    Such an upgrade over Windows 8. Microsoft have done good this time
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    WINDOWS 10 reviews are coming positive mostly like start menu is back, internet explorer is replaced by Microsoft edge there are soo many changes that are done to windows 10 you can also check reviews on this site https://www.ticketgateway.com/profile/user_profile... and you will get more updates about Windows 10
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